Soon to be a PM-935T-S owner

[Sparkymacker]

Hi Ted

Actually we celebrate Thanksgiving in October, but thanks for the sentiment! The machine does come with some documentation but it is the typical stuff that has been photocopied a million times and things are lost in the translation (Chinglish). As well there are numerous variations of the machine so it is not exactly as pictured, but this typical of any Asian tools I have ever purchased. Hopefully my misadventures save someone else a bit of frustration! )

Gerry,
Sorry to hear you have an issue with the mill.
I am about to order the PM-935T-S mill and have been following your latest experience.
Thanks for sharing the effort and steps you are taking to restore proper operation.
Did the mill come with comprehensive mechanical drawings and electrical schematic and parts list?
The mechanical drawings I am used to would help to see how the critical parts are put together.
Praise God you are OK and there is no major damage.
Have a blessed and happy Thanksgiving with your family.

Ted

 

[Ray C]

All...

A few words about documentation from someone who has 4-6 technical writers on staff...

First, something you may not be aware of... The minute a distributor includes a document with a product, they assume responsibility and liability in much expanded ways. This raises the cost liability insurance through the roof. To safeguard from this, the next step is to have the document approved by an attorney who specializes in that area. We happen to have on-staff attorneys but, a typical fee for outside services would be about $30,000 -for one single document. We've all seen those documents... They are devoid of useful information and filled with legal/safety disclaimers.

Second, creating the initial document (if you hire a technical writer) typically involves $10,000 of initial labor. If you present a non-professionally produced document to a liability attorney, they will charge to re-write the document at a much higher fee.

Third, on average the documents I dealt with were 25 -100 pages. The annual cost of keeping them up to date and getting them re-approved was about $25,000 per year.

The next time you feel disappointment about the poor quality of your machine's documentation, try to realize that documentation costs alone can drive a small company out of business.

The recent trend is to have online community support groups... I like having good documentation too but, not when it raises the cost of something by 20% -and especially when you only need to read it once, maybe twice in your lifetime.


Ray

 

[Sparkymacker]

Like I said the information that comes with the machine is typical and what I would have expected so I am not disappointed or upset in that regard; it is what it is. When you buy these Asian machines there are trade offs and you should be aware of that going in. The price is right and over time you can tweak things to your satisfaction, I think that is why all of us are interested in this as a hobby as we like to tinker with things. Personally I can never leave well enough alone, so I accept the consequences good or bad!)

 

[Ray C]

Hi Sparkymacker... Just so you know, it wasn't my intention to speak critically of your post. I just really wanted to let folks know that documentation causes all kinds of headaches for small companies. My apologies if my message came across the wrong way.

I've worked in some very small companies and the documentation process easily consumed 30% of the engineering department and various managers. -That's a huge expense to pass on to the customer. And sadly enough, I've experienced that most customers only glance-over the documentation and still end-up calling the technical support line for things that are clearly stated in the documentation. It's a real sore issue for most businesses. In most cases, the documentation costs are so high, the company is forced to cut corners in all other aspects of the product or business. This is why so many companies charge fees for technical training -and on sophisticated products (like CAD/CAM programs or high end machinery) there's a whole industry wrapped around providing technical support and training.

Ray

Like I said the information that comes with the machine is typical and what I would have expected so I am not disappointed or upset in that regard; it is what it is. When you buy these Asian machines there are trade offs and you should be aware of that going in. The price is right and over time you can tweak things to your satisfaction, I think that is why all of us are interested in this as a hobby as we like to tinker with things. Personally I can never leave well enough alone, so I accept the consequences good or bad!)

 

[Sparkymacker]

Hi Ray, no worries! Just wanted to confirm I was not being critical either of what came with the machine with regards to a manual. My vise showed up yesterday so I have retrieve it out of my truck after I finish my coffee and see what it looks like!

 

[VTX1800]

Hi Sparkymacker... Just so you know, it wasn't my intention to speak critically of your post. I just really wanted to let folks know that documentation causes all kinds of headaches for small companies. My apologies if my message came across the wrong way.

Ray

Ray,
Your description of the documentation expense and expectations from foreign companies is acceptable.
However, since many of these imports are "clones" of old American designs; are there documentation resources in the public domain that would be helpful to owners of these machines and this forum?
Specifically, mechanical drawings and electrical schematics.

I appreciate the forum users sharing experiences and coming together to help a fellow hobby machinist.

Cheers,

Ted

 

[Ray C]

The original US design for many of these machines was called the "Birmingham" pattern. This is much akin to a 1911 pattern handgun... Same parts -made by many companies... I believe there are some distributors going by the Birmingham name but, they are cheap (as in really cheap) imports. I'm not aware of any parts manuals for it and if they existed, they're likely out of date. Many distributors order these with slight customizations allowing different speed ranges and spindle bores etc... Those things are not likely captured in any older documentation.

I will mention this however... Lathes are not rocket science -not by any means. Anyone who can take a single speed bicycle apart and put it back together, can work on a simple lathe like these. This is not true of some of the Leblonds and Monarchs -which have pressurized oil distribution and gear systems with complexity on the order of a manual transmission. -But then again, without any training at all, I've rebuilt more manual transmissions and differentials than you can shake a stick at...

Ray

Ray,
Your description of the documentation expense and expectations from foreign companies is acceptable.
However, since many of these imports are "clones" of old American designs; are there documentation resources in the public domain that would be helpful to owners of these machines and this forum?
Specifically, mechanical drawings and electrical schematics.

I appreciate the forum users sharing experiences and coming together to help a fellow hobby machinist.

Cheers,

Ted

 

[TimMTP]

Well, it wasn't soon and we had a bit of thread drift, but it finally arrived.

With the help of a couple of friends, it went through a 36" door and landed in it's spot just like we knew what we were doing.

Now I just have to finish clean up, finish set up, and learn how to use the silly thing.

 

[VTX1800]

Tim,

Congrats. Great teamwork.
Thanks for posting the pictures of the mill in the crate.
I kinda thought they would have to invert the motor and move the knee all the way down.
Did you use pipes under the mill to move it around?

After reading these forum posts and many emails and phone calls with Matt I am finally going to get a PM-935T-S mill.
I was supposed to travel to his location this morning.
It is 8 degrees here and the roads have been a mess all week.
Massive cold, snow, freezing rain storm headed our way today.
Will have to wait for next Saturday.
They forecast it might be almost 50 degrees by then.
Hope so.

Cheers,
Ted

 

[TimMTP]

Tim,

Did you use pipes under the mill to move it around?

Yes. We cut the pallet down width wise and took the boards off the bottom so the pipes could enter and exit freely.