[How do I?] Thoughts on simply scraping a part flat (efficiently)

As far as PPI on plates, straight edges, Jig Bore table tops and non way wear surfaces, The more PPI the longer they last.

No argument from me, Rich. I’m definitely striving for more points and 40-60% bearing as you teach.

My point re: my specific plate is that I’m not concerned about wear because I’m unlikely to use it more than once or twice in my lifetime.

My question, though, is how does one increase bearing percentage specifically? What scraping techniques affect bearing more than PPI?
 
If I was standing next to you I would have you increase the stroke length to 3/16", put in a 30-150 blade ground to a R 40 to 6 and neg 8 deg's. Have you go into your bathroom and bring out your bathroom scale and put it on the work bench, lay a red rag on the scale. press down on the scraper blade on the rag which will be 8 pounds down pressure. Then do rule 1, 2 and 3 on the plate to give it some new depth of .0004 to .0006" and better texture. This will make the "it looked better then that last time effect" now shorten the stroke 1/8 turn use same blade and do the divebomb cross pressing down the same depth.

What happens and I see it a lot. one sets the stroke to short and uses a 20 rad. blade and as they get better they lighten the pressure down and get the poka dot, looks better last scrape because when they stone the burrs to hard they loose .0001" depth and the bearing disappears. Jeff knows this as he had the same issues at first.
 
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If I was standing next to you I would have you increase the stroke length to 3/16", put in a 30-150 blade ground to a R 40 to 6 and neg 8 deg's. Have you go into your bathroom and bring out your bathroom scale and put it on the work bench, lay a red rag on the scale. press down on the scraper blade on the rag which will be 8 pounds down pressure. The do rule 1, 2 and 3 on the plate to give it some new depth of .0004 to .0006" and better texture. This will make the "it looked better then that last time effect" now shorten the stroke 1/8 turn use same blade and do the divebomb cross pressing down the same depth.

What happens and I see it a lot. one sets the stroke to short and uses a 20 rad. blade and as they get better they lighten the pressure down and get the poka dot, looks better last scrape because when they stone the burrs to hard they loose .0001" depth and the bearing disappears. Jeff knows this as he had the same issues at first.

Thanks, Richard. This is helpful. I think the blade width and radius may be causing me more problems than scrape depth, Though. I went into the shop earlier today and measured the depth of individual scrapes on both the straightedge I'm currently roughing in (with a wider blade) and the plate that I set aside (after finishing with a narrow blade). The depth on the plate from high point to adjacent low point averaged around 0.0005" (more than I thought). The depth on the straightedge was closer to 0.0008" to 0.001" (and the bearing percentage looks reasonable, though I'm nowhere close to the desired PPI yet).

This seems to jibe with what I was thinking:

my plan to increase bearing percentage would be to ignore pinpointing for a pass or two and create as even a cross-hatch pattern as possible across the entire surface, with a slightly longer stroke and paying attention not to drop the back of the scraper.

I'll follow your advice to do this with a wider but tightly radiused blade (about R 40 to 60).

To date, I pretty much only use two blades: a 25-150 R90 and a 15-150 R60 (at least those were the radii from the factory).

I think I mentioned earlier that the radius was wonky on my narrower blade. I hadn't held it up to a radius gauge in ages, and was kinda shocked to discover my 15-150 blade was nowhere close to R 60mm like I thought. After an uncounted number of sharpening passes, I'd managed to grind the shape into something almost straight/flat in the very middle section, then falling off rapidly on the sides (like R20 to R30).

My 600 grit wheel must have been more aggressive than I realized. Where I thought I was just polishing the bevel, I was actually changing the geometry every time I touched up on the wheel. (I've since moved to a 1200 grit wheel for honing, one that some kind soul gave to me! <grin>)

I think I was effectively dive bombing with a narrow, but R90mm++ blade.

Anyway, I'll be a lot more careful about blade geometry and depth of cut on my next passes. If nothing else, I'll be checking my blades against a radius gauge more often!

I think my problem may be mostly related to blade radius, and not to depth or pressure. I'll see what changes when I get back to it, and post the results. Whether or not the bad grind is the culprit for my poor bearing percentage, I'm going to 3D print a fixture for accurately grinding 40, 60, and 90mm radii Biax blades on my Glendo, regardless.
 
The width of the blade (and shank) only has to do with flexibility, helping to hold it flat by eye, getting into tight places, and catching the corners. The radius, and the bevel angle to a minor extent are the only things that change the cut profile, unless you are digging deep enough that the entire blade width is cutting!
 
The width of the blade (and shank) only has to do with flexibility, helping to hold it flat by eye, getting into tight places, and catching the corners. The radius, and the bevel angle to a minor extent are the only things that change the cut profile, unless you are digging deep enough that the entire blade width is cutting!

My narrower blade has (is supposed to have) a tighter radius.
 
My narrower blade has (is supposed to have) a tighter radius.
Radii of scraper blades are easily and fairly quickly changed at will (and slowly by long term wear, as you are aware ;-) Make the radius what is needed to do the job at hand to your satisfaction (following Richard's guidelines, of course!) As you have found out accidentally, the entire width of the blade need not be ground to the new radius if you are moving to a larger radius, which can extend the blade's life somewhat, just gotta grind and cut only in the center...

Thinking further (often a mistake ;-), modifying to a parabolic shape with a decreasing radius at the sides, on a wider scraper blade, could allow changing the cut radius on the fly, IF you are better than me at keeping it cutting only where you want the blade to contact the work. A Sharpie mark on the blade where you want to make contact with the work helps considerably... Edit: I actually do something similar to that anyway. I round the sharp corners of the blade to keep them from digging in and making very nasty scratches in the work.
 
the entire width of the blade need not be ground to the new radius if you are moving to a larger radius, which can extend the blade's life somewhat, just gotta grind and cut only in the center...

Hmm. Not sure I completely buy that. I'm far more comfortable with a single radius on each of two or three different blades (or at least different radii on different sides of Sandvik-style clamp-in carbide inserts).

It's hard enough to keep your scrapes consistent with a single radius, as raising or lowering the back end of the scraper even slightly has a significant affect on the depth and effective radius of the scrapes. Without a single smooth radius on the cutting part of the blade you're adding yet another variable to juggle. I do agree strongly with grinding off the sharp corners, though (just like the blade in a smoother plane for woodworking).

Judging by how long I had to spend even on a coarse 260 grit diamond wheel to fix the radius of my narrower blade, it seems "easily and quickly" applies mostly to unintentionally changing the radius. (Laugh). Even five or ten minutes feels like forever when you're actually standing at a wheel attempting to regrind a profile (the "watched pot" syndrome). Carbide is hard stuff.

Anyway, my 3D models notwithstanding, I've had enough theorizing. I should have some time to get into the shop and actually make some chips over the long weekend.
 
Rex said "Anyway, my 3D models notwithstanding, I've had enough theorizing. I should have some time to get into the shop and actually make some chips over the long weekend."

You guys need more hands on practice and stop the BS (theorizing) If you remember the rules...and you should after all the practice we had saying them...lol you will do fine. What were they again? 1 ? 2 ? 3? 4 ? 5 ? Just remember to keep the pressure down the same and I know it's hard for you guys sometimes to do that. The old BS that was spread by you know who....telling you to lighten up your last few passes and wet stoning is so much BS from a pretender and not a doer.
 
Judging by how long I had to spend even on a coarse 260 grit diamond wheel to fix the radius of my narrower blade, it seems "easily and quickly" applies mostly to unintentionally changing the radius. (Laugh). Even five or ten minutes feels like forever when you're actually standing at a wheel attempting to regrind a profile (the "watched pot" syndrome). Carbide is hard stuff.
Rough grinding a scraper blade to the desired radius is not really a task for a Glendo. It is a task for something like a Baldor carbide grinder AND an adjustable jig where you can hold a consistent radius while simply swinging the blade back and forth. Much less expensive (shop made) versions are also in current use. With a decent setup a blade can be ground to a new radius in 5-10 minutes max from a blank like a Sandvik. I am using a HF carbide grinder and a very simple swing jig that can hold a Biax tool or a Sandvik hand scraper with blade (but I sure would like a Glendo as well!)
 
Rex said "Anyway, my 3D models notwithstanding, I've had enough theorizing. I should have some time to get into the shop and actually make some chips over the long weekend."

You guys need more hands on practice and stop the BS (theorizing)

Did ... you just quote me saying the same exact thing? (laugh)

For what it's worth, I honestly have been trying hard to follow your instruction to the tee (including reading and re-reading your entire handout, not just the pages you've posted here). I have been striving to maintain the same stroke pressure up through and including the last few passes. In fact, my own words in the very first post in this very long thread were: "use the same force and strive for the same depth of cut whether roughing or finishing!" It's even in bold. It's somewhat discouraging to see "lightening up in the last few passes" as a possible culprit. (I also have no idea who you were calling a pretender). Lastly, I've never changed how I remove burrs other than to use a smaller stone at your request. (I didn't see any difference whatsoever: burrs there, stone, burrs gone.)

Clearly I'm not doing something exactly right: I'm still surprised the bearing turned out so low, as I've not consciously changed anything I'm doing as I progress from roughing to finishing other than shorter strokes and a tighter radius on my blade. I don't think the results shown in comment #28 are all that terrible, though. If other beginners have better results to share, I'd welcome any tips or suggestions on how they were achieved. Nonetheless, I've been trying to figure out what to change to improve the result as I suspect just continuing to do the same thing is unlikely to improve anything.

My best guess at the moment for the low bearing percentage is the too-flat radius on my finishing blade, possibly coupled with unintentionally dropping the back of the scraper is the source of the problem.

If that's the culprit, I'll report back in a few days with results no-one can criticize. Otherwise, I'll keep working on it in private until I get even better results and can explain what made the difference.

I'm slow (three times through your class!) but I'm persistent, and I almost always get there in the end. In my experience it's usually better to take the time to fully understand why something works or doesn't rather than just continuing to do the same thing or flailing around trying things at random. That attitude has worked for me my entire professional life and I'm too set in my ways to change now, anyway!

Enjoy the Memorial Day weekend everyone.
 
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