TIG torch water cooler on the cheap??

[FlyFishn]

I'm no expert water... but it would seem to me that if you are circulating water that you want to put some kind of chemicals in there, antifreeze etc, to keep the grime down.

I don't think you are going to find any "pure water" solution to be a long-term solution. That having been said, if you put an additive in there (like antifreeze, not sure if that is appropriate or not) the additive will also protect the liquid circuit, not just keep the grime from growing.

 

[homebrewed]

@homebrewed, a chiller is a phase-change device, whereas a radiator is simply a water loop with a pump, radiator, and fan. TIG coolers are usually the latter, multiplying the available surface area for convective cooling without any electronics to speak of. Like I said above, not much to go wrong with these systems.

For preservation, you can make your own coolant with non-toxic propylene glycol and a squirt of child-safe benzalkonium chloride (polyquat) disinfectant from the hot tub aisle. That's what Miller sells for $30 a gallon, pre-diluted.

After looking at the innards of many dead chillers, I am, unfortunately, very familiar with the technology that goes into a chiller. I agree that a simple loop with a radiator and pump is the most bullet-proof.

I see where my earlier comment could be interpreted as promoting a refrigerator-based system , which was not my intent. Sorry 'bout that .

 

[Weldo]

So, a thing happened to me today.

I had a few welds to make on a small weldment so I get to it like usual. After the first weld I notice the water cooled torch feels a bit hotter than usual. I was probably running around 150A but the welds were short, just 6 welds at 1" each.

I let the piece cool a bit to minimize warpage and so I could reconfigure some clamps. I go to make another weld, about 1.5" long this time and halfway through the weld I hear, "Poof.......Ssssshhhhhhhh." I thought it may have been a gas related problem since my tank was almost empty but I did not loose shielding. As welders do, the bead was going great so I just kept on welding.

Upon lifting my helmet I notice a small trickle of water running down the TIG torch hose protector. "Hmmm..." I thought. That's a problem.




Here's what I found under the hose protector.




You can see the copper conductor inside.




On a positive note, the weld came out great!




So I'm guessing what happened was the torch head got clogged up. Water could no longer circulate and steam built up until it burst the hose.

At this point I had 3 more welds to make just like the one pictured above. I let the torch cool a little and made another pass. This time steam began pouring out of the hose breach within seconds of striking the arc. The water pump was off, of course.

Might as well keep going I guess, the torch is already boned. The third weld came with so much steam that it actually wafted up and messed up my shielding! Shortly after the steam cloud came the smell of burning rubber and thick white smoke. Time to stop. I did finish that weld but even with only one weld left to perform I figured it was too foolish to continue with this torch.

Luckily I still had the old air cooled torch that I got with this welder. Unluckily I seem to have lost the back cap for it. Man, I just had 1.5" of weld to finish this part! Well, you know what they say about desperate times. I took the back cap off my water torch and taped in onto the other one. I wrapped a bunch of teflon tape around it followed by some electrical tape. Lo and behold it worked just fine!




So now I'm in the market for a new torch and a proper cooler to replace this cobbled together system.




I think the problems I have experienced are due to several factors. First, my cooler is open to the atmosphere, thus it has great potential for mold growth. To mitigate this I had added a small amount of chlorine bleach to the regular tap water in the tub. The bleach has affected the hoses in a negative fashion. The hoses have become softer than when new and some have even become white from the bleach.

Also the pump I'm using cannot supply ample flow or pressure. As an example, I was looking at the Speedway model TIG torch from Weldtec and it recommends 50psi of coolant pressure. My set up cannot approach that spec, offering only a trickle at best.

Lastly I know for a fact that calcium build up is an issue with our municipal water supply. The build up is not terrible but it is present on some of the other plumbing fixtures in the home.

So now I think I might me ready to invest in a proper welding cooler and use the proper coolant in the system. The thing I have now has worked for years and I am by no means a production shop, with my welder only seeing occasional use, but I want something that will work well every time I need it. I expect the initial investment to be somewhat high but I also expect a more robust and foolproof system than my home made solution.

Any thoughts or comments?

 

[pontiac428]

I don't have any comments about your setup, because you are figuring that part out. For the coolant, use distilled/deionized water. Buy it by the gallon at your grocery store or wally world. Then add about 1/3 v/v of propylene glycol (amazon if nothing else) and add a tablespoon or two per gallon of benzalkonium chloride (a quaternary amine disinfectant) sold as "polyquat" or hot tub disinfectant, cheap, amazon. That's the formula for the premium premix. I don't know if I'm repeating myself in this thread or not with that recipe.

 

[brino]

On a positive note, the weld came out great!

You certainly sound like a welder; You got that bead done!

I remember a t-shirt I saw:
"I know I'm on fire, I just have to finish this weld!"

I don't know if I'm repeating myself in this thread or not with that recipe.

Maybe, but I welcome the knowledge!

-brino

 

[Weldo]

You certainly sound like a welder; You got that bead done!

Haha thanks, man! Sometimes you just really get in the zone!

@pontiac428 I like your recipe, it would likely be much more cost effective than buying coolant pre-made for $30 a gallon. Regarding distilled water, I read somewhere that since it lacks any and all minerals that distilled water can tend to leach them out of its container thus causing significant corrosion like damage. I thought that the municipal water companies add minerals to water not only for nutrition but also to help protect the pipes that carry the water. Can anyone speak to that?



Regarding my equipment failure, here's a few pics of the innards after a tear down.




There's lots of nastiness on the parts that were submerged in the bleach water 24/7 for many months. That hose on the right used to be black! And it used to have a woven sheath on it. The bleach must have eaten it away.




There's a little build up inside the pipes on the torch body.




It's not as bad as I was expecting though. I can still blow through the pipes, so they're not fully clogged.




I dunno. I thought my issue was clogging but maybe not? Maybe there was a clog elsewhere in the hose. I tested my pump, it was still pumping.

 

[pontiac428]

Why on yaweh's green earth would you soak your torch head in bleach? and for months?!

:***** slap:

I'm at a bit of a loss for words.

You could try removing the copper salts and oxides with acid. I'd try vinegar first, phosphoric second, HCl third but don't complain if it stains the metals. Then order all of the components that are ruined.

Those metal salts gotta go, because they will dissociate into the coolant and make it more conductive. That's a tig torch, not a showerhead.

Minimizing salts in solution are the reason you use distilled water. You are correct in that a few atoms of copper here or there will jump from components of your system to the coolant, but that is on an infinitesimal scale. If it were a problem in the real world, you wouldn't be reading this because your water pipes would disintegrating.

 

[Weldo]

Well, I’d consider this whole thing a long term experiment. Obviously it didn’t work out! Also my knowledge of chemicals and their reactions is extremely limited so I’m just fumbling around here. I never considered things such as conductivity of liquids and the like.

I didn’t exactly soak my torch in bleach for months. My cobbled together cooler used about 5 or so gallons of water into which I had added a few tablespoons of bleach. In the past I’d tried no bleach in the water but observed significant mold growth in the reservoir after a period of time. The bleach did keep mold at bay but had a negative effect on the materials.

I’m at the point now where I don’t want to bother with half assed systems and homemade coolants so I’m going to go all in and probably get an HTP cooler and their recommended fluid. I plan to get a new torch as well, hoses and all. Saving a few dollars is no longer as important to me as having a properly engineered system that works when I need it to.

 

[DANNYBOY]

after reading this thread I'm curious has anyone considered using waterless engine coolant in their cooler

 

[pontiac428]

I think what you did was noble. It probably would have worked great with a heavier pump and no bleach. I think a radiator in the loop will help too.

@DANNYBOY, the formula for antifreeze is similar, and includes corrosion inhibitors, wetting agent, and dye. Antifreezes that I've tested have had very low conductivity when new. I have not tried it myself, but I see no reason it wouldn't work. It certainly won't hurt any of the components of the system based on chemistry.