Tightening up a screwless vise

[Dabbler]

With the vise mounted 90 degrees to the picture and the bolts in the closest T slot, is that still a problem?
-- My point is that the vise can look too large for the mill and still be quite usable. (After you spent the money, why not use it)...

 

[Aaron_W]

Before you return the vise and / or buy another 3" vise, try mounting it and running the table around as if you are using it. Kurt style vises always look too big to me on most mills, but unless the DX4 is a huge 4" vise you should be ok. The table on your mill is slightly larger than that on my Clausing and we have similar Y travel. I have a 5" Kurt clone on mine which works. Granted mine is a knee mill vs your bench mill but that shouldn't make too much of a difference.

 

[Frank O]

Before you return the vise and / or buy another 3" vise, try mounting it and running the table around as if you are using it. Kurt style vises always look too big to me on most mills, but unless the DX4 is a huge 4" vise you should be ok. The table on your mill is slightly larger than that on my Clausing and we have similar Y travel. I have a 5" Kurt clone on mine which works. Granted mine is a knee mill vs your bench mill but that shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Tried that -- it's kind of tight in the Y direction. If I place the vise on the table in a position where it won't tip off without being bolted down, it's very tight to crank the table toward the user enough to get the tool back to the rear vise jaw. To get more room in that direction, I'd have to mount the vise on the table closer toward the user in a position where it would naturally tip off if it wasn't bolted down. That could work, but the weight of the vise over time might cause torque on the tabletop that the designers didn't plan for.

 

[DavidR8]

I looked at the specs for the LMS 5550 mill and the table is 6.3" deep.
The 4" Kurt is 12.5" long. In my opinion it too large for the mill for the reasons you describe.
To get it further onto the table it will restrict Y-axis travel and further back its bolted to the outside T-slot.

I would be curious to see what vise LMS recommends for the mill.

 

[ericc]

Is it possible to come up with a temporary solution until something better just drops on you? How about an aluminum tooling plate, with countersink holes and screws going into T-nuts. Then, bolt the vise to the plate. You can often get drops for decent prices. The problem is that you will lose some precious Y space.

 

[ErichKeane]

Is it possible to come up with a temporary solution until something better just drops on you? How about an aluminum tooling plate, with countersink holes and screws going into T-nuts. Then, bolt the vise to the plate. You can often get drops for decent prices. The problem is that you will lose some precious Y space.

I think he said he was within driving distance of LMS, right? They have a 3" CNC screw vice that would require hold downs to attach to the table, but would probably be perfect here.

 

[Aaron_W]

Tried that -- it's kind of tight in the Y direction. If I place the vise on the table in a position where it won't tip off without being bolted down, it's very tight to crank the table toward the user enough to get the tool back to the rear vise jaw. To get more room in that direction, I'd have to mount the vise on the table closer toward the user in a position where it would naturally tip off if it wasn't bolted down. That could work, but the weight of the vise over time might cause torque on the tabletop that the designers didn't plan for.

Here is mine, it is almost 15" long so 2"+ longer than that DX4. I wonder if the placement of the hold down bolts is different, the centers of the hold down bolts on mine are 5.75" from the front of the vise. Mounted on the 3rd slot back there is probably 3/4" of over hang towards the column and my table is 6", LMS says yours is 6.3". There is quite an overhang on the back but it will stay put in this position when the bolts are removed.

Personally I think this vise is too big, but it is what it came with. The prior owner had this mill for years and also thought it was too big, but it is a good vise, it works and vises are expensive.

This mill does have the benefit of the head being mounted on a ram so I can adjust the distance to the column which can help with the reduced Y movement, unlike a bench mill.

 

[Frank O]

I would be curious to see what vise LMS recommends for the mill.

First, thanks for the other comments from everybody.

LMS emailed me back and said they typically recommend this for the 5550:

4 Inch Precision Milling Vise | Drill Press Milling Vise

Secure your work with this 4 inch precision milling vise. The hardened and fixed jaw of the drill press milling vise is bolted from the top to enhance rigidity.

littlemachineshop.com

They consider the 4" about ideal -- it will hang off the back some and eat up a little of the y-axis travel, maybe about the last 0.5"-1.0". If that's a concern, they recommend the 3" version:

Kurt-Style Milling Vise | Milling Machine Vise

This Kurt-style milling vise has angle tight positive, lock-style jaws that are hardened and precision ground. Hold your workpieces securely with this milling machine vise.

littlemachineshop.com

They said that's actually what they have mounted on their floor model, and it barely hangs over the back edge when mounted on the center slot.

 

[DavidR8]

First, thanks for the other comments from everybody.

LMS emailed me back and said they typically recommend this for the 5550:

4 Inch Precision Milling Vise | Drill Press Milling Vise

Secure your work with this 4 inch precision milling vise. The hardened and fixed jaw of the drill press milling vise is bolted from the top to enhance rigidity.

littlemachineshop.com

They consider the 4" about ideal -- it will hang off the back some and eat up a little of the y-axis travel, maybe about the last 0.5"-1.0". If that's a concern, they recommend the 3" version:

Kurt-Style Milling Vise | Milling Machine Vise

This Kurt-style milling vise has angle tight positive, lock-style jaws that are hardened and precision ground. Hold your workpieces securely with this milling machine vise.

littlemachineshop.com

They said that's actually what they have mounted on their floor model, and it barely hangs over the back edge when mounted on the center slot.

Good that they got back to you.
That vise looks smaller than the Kurt DX4 Crossover. I'd bet that it's similar in size to the 4" Homge which Precision Matthews sells.
From the hold down bolt to the front looks to be about 4.75"

 

[higgite]

FWIW, I’m going to veer back to screwless vises (see thread topic) and touch on why I have one on an LMS 5500 that I mentioned earlier. I struggled with the vise overhang issue before I settled on a Tormach 90mm screwless vise and so far I have no regrets. One advantage of a screwless vise or a “CNC” vise is they aren’t restrained to certain locations on the table by having to line up hold down bolt slots with slots in the table. Mine is mounted flush with the back of the mill table with hold down clamps, so it eats up no Y travel. But, I can see where that might not be a concern if one had an X-axis DRO mounted to the back of the table. A little overhang wouldn’t matter. It also may or may not be a concern on the new LMS 5550 since its larger table reduces Y travel by over an inch compared to my 5500 anyway.

Tom