What kind of welder to get?

Hey everyone,

Just though I would update you on my welder decision. After reading over the thoughtful response's to this thread and then letting everything percolate in the back recesses of my mind, along with taking a 3 hour hands on introduction to welding (o/x, stick, mig) at “The Forge” a makerspace downtown, I decided to purchase a small o/x setup and a arch welder. I just keep coming back to “boy it would be neat” to take up o/x and stick welding again.

Prior to my introduction to welding course I had a 100 amp panel installed in my 10'x14' shed with 11 110 and 4 220 outlets. One of the 220 outlets is a dedicated 30 amp 10/3 wire. It sure is nice to have all of those outlets along with 6 overhead led lights! This is a one person shop so no issue with overloading circuits as I only run one machine at a time.

So within the past few weeks I purchased a small set of o/x/tanks and cart (no hose, etc at this point). I also purchased a used Lincoln AC-225C arch welder with a 100' 10/4 extension cord, Jackson non-auto darkening helmet and a bunch of old 6011 and 6013 rods. According to the manual the Lincoln can run on a 50 amp #10, for up to 100' feet so I will change out my 30 amp breaker for a 50. The 100' extension cord will come in handy as I will not be doing any welding inside my wood shed and future plans are to build a small detached lean-to/pole barn shed for welding/blacksmithing.
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I have several welding projects in mind from brazing/re-cutting a missing broken bull gear tooth on my Logan lath. Someone on this forum posted a picture from Practical Machinist that showed a home made jig (something to build/wed) for indexing off an existing tooth. And the ubiquitous run-of-the-mill welding table and welding cart build.

Found out last week that our local scrap yard, D.H Griffin, has a yard sale area and took a look at it last week. Looks like a gold mind of used scrap metal to practice welding and learning the proper techniques of metal prep prior to welding. Also will be on the look out for appropriate cart and welding table materials.

I retired (71 ½ and about time!) last November and feel like a kind in a candy store with all of this retirement time to indulge in my new found (started acquiring equipment about 3 years ago) metal working hobbies (lathe/etc, welding, backsmithing) and time.:)

So a final thanks to everyone for their kind, thoughtful and incisive responses in helping me decide on my welding solution's.

Harry
 
Be careful, 50A is a bit high on #10. For the short duty cycles of a welder it's probably safe enough, but I personally wouldn't do less than #8 copper. From the breaker to the outlet anyway. That's what the breaker is there to protect. And on the off chance something gets plugged in that can draw 50A longer term, that wiring won't be protected.

Since you have a subpanel anyway, I would surface mount a short conduit run to a new outlet box with #8 for the 50A and leave the #10 runs on 30A breakers.
 
ttabbal said:
Be careful, 50A is a bit high on #10. For the short duty cycles of a welder it's probably safe enough, but I personally wouldn't do less than #8 copper. From the breaker to the outlet anyway. That's what the breaker is there to protect. And on the off chance something gets plugged in that can draw 50A longer term, that wiring won't be protected.

Since you have a subpanel anyway, I would surface mount a short conduit run to a new outlet box with #8 for the 50A and leave the #10 runs on 30A breakers.
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No room in the box for another breaker and I talked with the electrical company that installed the panel and they said the 30 could be swapped out for a 50. I will probably be using the 50' extension cord for welding and the Lincoln manual recommended #10 and 50 amp for runs under 100'. i will also call and talk with the city permit guy and see if a 50 amp is within their code.
 
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Hi Harry. You sound like a beginning blacksmith. It looks like you picked just the right tools for the job. Careful about that current rating. If you are a typical weekend welder, your duty cycle will be so low you won't cook your wire. Just remember your dodgy setup when you decide to weld your own anvil together. I'd just stick with the 30 amp and live with the occasional trips. They won't be frequent if you keep it below 180 amps on the welder.
 
ericc said:
Hi Harry. You sound like a beginning blacksmith. It looks like you picked just the right tools for the job. Careful about that current rating. If you are a typical weekend welder, your duty cycle will be so low you won't cook your wire. Just remember your dodgy setup when you decide to weld your own anvil together. I'd just stick with the 30 amp and live with the occasional trips. They won't be frequent if you keep it below 180 amps on the welder.
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Yes to weekend welder and will not be pushing the limits of the welder. One thing I noticed in reading over the manual is that the OC (open circuit) volts is 45-59 so does that mean the 30 amp breaker will not work as I'm not sure I understand the definition of OC.

No welding an anvil as I will probably find and ASO at the junk yard and have fun learning how to make a beer bottle opener in my JABOD forge.
 
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We thinks the 50 amp is OUTPUT of welder.

#10 wire is rated for only 30 amps and at 100 feet long maybe 75% of that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Harry, I'm really late to the rodeo, having many other 'things to do' In lieu or reading this thread...

I think your startup outfit will serve you well!

--however -- If the breaker is 50 amp and the wire size is 10 gauge, you do have a problem. A short or hooking a large welder to it could cause a fire. In most jurisdictions you will need a 6 gauge wire to safely use a 50A breaker. Please check again...
 
Congratulations on the retirement . Harry please do not swap a 50A in place of a 30 on #10. If you’re out of spaces on the panel then add a sub-panel.
 
So it looks like I need to replace the #10 with #8 and change 30 amp to 50 amp.
 
Have you tried welding with the original setup? 30 amps will get you a long way. With an OC of 60 volts or so, you are geting about a current multiple of 4X. That means that 30 amps in will give you about 120 at the stinger. This is just about right for 1/8" 7018 and a little high for 6011. And, you can draw quite a bit more than that because of the duty cycle. Remember that most blacksmith welding is not long stringer beads with slag that peels off behind you. They are short ugly welds with lots of slag on the shank of a hardy tool or a messed up pair of tongs. By the time you hit the characteristic time of the breaker, you'll be off the joint and chipping slag. The only time I've been running full out is when I do full pen welds on anvils. That JABOD forge should be lots of fun. Spend 20 minutes doing a little fire watch after you are done to make sure that you don't set the thing on fire.
 
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