Redlineman's Logan 200 Rescue

Thanks Tom;

Can't imagine sitting there sanding on a rubber belt to bevel it, but I guess it can be done.
I have not installed a serp belt yet (so maybe I am confused). But with your spindle out ... why would you need to sand & glue or sew a rubber belt?? You should be able to find one that will fit and if you put it on now ... you would not need to cut.

A 390K7 might work. With 7 ribs the width should be @ .984". The 39.0" outside circumference might be tight. But the 390 is the same as the 990 (mm) belt that I see some using.

I also see a 395K6. 39.5" again outside circumference .. but only .844" wide. Or a 400K6 ... 40" outside and again .844". I can't find a 395 or 400 with 7 ribs.

I just about ordered a couple (all less than $10) ... but I got to remembering something about my "bench top" version Logan having a slightly longer belt.

Easiest site I found to "wade through" is :
http://www.vbelts4less.com/K-Section-Micro-Rib-Belts_c_105-3-3.html
 
But with your spindle out ... why would you need to sand & glue or sew a rubber belt??
Well...

Of course you would not, eh?

I don't think the width is very important. Serp belts transfer so much more power than the originals - so they say - that a narrower one might actually be more appropriate in terms of the safety factor offered.
 
You might be right on the width. You do have a good point on the safety factor. And Serps certainly have more surface area which results in more efficient power transfer. But, keeping in mind these cone pulleys do not have the grooves to use all that belt surface area ... I'm undecided on the width.

I really dislike the synthetic belt that Logan sells. It is better than what was on my lathe before (alligator clipped piece of conveyor belt) ... and no more clack, clack, clack as the clips rotated. But I still have slippage issues with it.
 
Hey Ed;

Considering the rather fragile nature of the Logan gears (my perception based on the past carnage visited on mine), I would be very mindful of the safety factor, by which I meant slippage saving you from damaging something if you tried to do more with the machine than should be asked of it. Not knowing much of anything about machining myself, I'm not sure where that tipping point actually is, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. I'm guessing - and that is a guess - that around .750"W is plenty as afar as power transmission is concerned... although it does just now occur to me that you can still monitor safety through tension, regardless of belt width. Perhaps a wider belt set at lower tension would be optimal?

I also wonder what width would track correctly? Does wider track better, or will a narrower belt stay put on the convex cone surface?
 
Red -
All good questions, and ones that I have been pondering myself. I have had no issues with tracking (in normal conditions) with the Logan Green endless belt (and it is full 1" width). I do have it "pop" off periodically and believe this is related to slippage under heavy load (heavy drilling). Always slipping off the counter shaft (drive) pulley.

Looking a the various configurations of these belts again this morning, I am more thinking about the J series. The J is slightly thinner (less bunching around the small pulley) than the K series. The J would (for a given width) put more rubber onto the pulley ... the individual "V"s are a little closer together. At one inch width the K has 7 ribs that would touch the pulleys, while the J would have 10 ribs touching. And there is more width selection in both the 39" & 40" belts.

I think there are many options that would work and work well. I think I will go with the 1" wide J series, when I pull the headstock in the spring.

Sorry we took your rebuild thread on a tangent!!

Ed
 
Hey;


The last of the major assemblies to be disassembled was the primary drive unit. The drive on these lathes is at once quaint and ingenious. Isolation of vibration seems to have been the overriding goal, which is likely a good idea given the slight overall mass of the machine. These drive units are generally fairly robust and highly functional. However, my own experience, and watching other people's projects, has shown the main drive shaft to be particularly prone to excessive wear in the bushings as well as the shaft itself.


LoganBeltCaseFront.jpg


Once again, mine is an early example of the Logan branded 200 model, and there are some distinct differences here in the primary drive assembly compared to the later machines. Mainly they have to do with the primary shaft and how it is carried.


LoganDriveboxLateColored.jpg


This diagram of the later version shows a simplified mechanism. The weight of the main cover rests on a rod that presses against a boss on the (yellow) counter shaft bracket, which tensions the flat drive belt. Simple and effective. They use two Oilite bushings on the shaft.


LoganDriveboxEarlyColored.jpg


This schematic shows a far more complex system on the earlier versions of this lathe. The shaft is carried in two separate housings containing two bushings each. These housing are held in place by opposing jamb-nutted bolts, as shown below.


LoganPrimaryShaftPulleyEnd.jpg


It is possible to see both potentially good and bad points in either design. The later version in certainly simpler, and therefore less expensive to produce. With the later version, you lose the ability to adjust the attitude of the primary cone pulley relative to its mate on the spindle. Whether this ability to tune the belt for drive accuracy is an advantage is a debatable point. So too is the fact that the early bushing arrangement seems to be prone to severe wear. Did the later single bushing version represent an improvement in that regard? Was it more stable and less prone to misalignment of the bushing holders? I'm uncertain about the answer to that, but it is interesting to speculate on what the reasons for the changes might have been.


LoganPrimaryShaft1.jpg


One thing is for certain. It would seem that painting the oil caps red did not produce the desired effect. These things don't get oiled very often on many machines. With .025" wear on the thrust side of the bushings at the cone end, and upwards of .100" on the shaft, things were pretty rangy back there. In sizing up this repair, I am contemplating a bit of a hybrid approach, using a new shaft, the original bushing holders, but a solid one piece drilled and slotted bushing instead of the split arrangement. It seems that more bearing area might be beneficial, especially on the heavily worn cone end.


More to come...

LoganBeltCaseFront.jpg

LoganDriveboxLateColored.jpg

LoganDriveboxEarlyColored.jpg

LoganPrimaryShaftPulleyEnd.jpg

LoganPrimaryShaft1.jpg
 
OK;


Creeping along with the resurrection.


LoganPrimaryShaft2.jpg


Since the evidence suggests the double bushing setup did not work quite as well as one might hope, I took a shot at doing a single bushing instead. A nice piece of tight tolerance (+/-.0005) ground O1 drill rod and some SAE 841 oil impregnated bronze bushings from McMaster Carr should do nicely. My old Prentice Gearhead has oil slots cut in the bushing to wick oil across the shaft surface from the oil hole, so I thought it could not hurt to do that here as well. I purchased a 1/8" burr to more correctly match the size of the oil hole I drilled through the bush.


LoganPrimaryShaft3.jpg


The original shaft measured .0749 OD where the new one is dead on .75. The bushings measure .751 ID. It is a close fit, but spins freely enough that I think it should be fine. This is my first real experience with "Oilite" bronze, and I am impressed with just how much oil this stuff lays down on the shaft when you spin the bushing holders. It leaves a noticeable film behind. This with the addition of the oiling cups and an occasional drop of some nice gooey oil should keep things free spinning.


I vow to do a better job of oiling them than previous users did!

LoganPrimaryShaft2.jpg

LoganPrimaryShaft3.jpg
 
Redlineman

Did you "colorize" those drive box drawing? I'm not a big fan of colorized black and white movies but those drawings are a big improvement over the black and white drawings I have in my Logan 820 manual. :thumbsup:

When I replaced the drive box oilite bearings in my 820 I used two part like the original. The original ones and the shaft looked much worse than yours. I have been using Mobil Spindle Velocite® #10 Machine Oil for them an all the other rotating shafts on the lathe. I use Mobil Vactra #2 for the ways.

Rich
 
Hey Ed;

Considering the rather fragile nature of the Logan gears (my perception based on the past carnage visited on mine), I would be very mindful of the safety factor, by which I meant slippage saving you from damaging something if you tried to do more with the machine than should be asked of it. Not knowing much of anything about machining myself, I'm not sure where that tipping point actually is, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. I'm guessing - and that is a guess - that around .750"W is plenty as afar as power transmission is concerned... although it does just now occur to me that you can still monitor safety through tension, regardless of belt width. Perhaps a wider belt set at lower tension would be optimal?

I also wonder what width would track correctly? Does wider track better, or will a narrower belt stay put on the convex cone surface?

I couldnt aggree any further. Young, old, new, even hard core machinist better beleive theres going to be the day, a bad day, usually caused
by a distraction. 40 yrs of lathe threading with no instantces, and I crashed my tailstock doing ft hand thread by talking this summer. Thank the machine
gods for slipping flat belt. Had it been a direct geared lathe? would be good bye. Not sure on your Logan but our SBends are around
2 inches not tight not loose but a good safety valve...
 
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