1 Million + 1

OK, I get the point. I can move it. To my secondary questions:
  • What is the max spindle speed I should be interested in?
  • What is the advantage of a gearhead?
  • And if I go gearhead, should I go 3-phase with a VFD for full speed control?
  • What is a fair price for a 12 x 36 - 14 x 40 used gearhead and what NOT to buy?
Thanks,
John
 
Way back when I was lathe shopping well worn used machines were selling for almost as much as a new machine. I ended up getting a 13 x 40 Gear head Jet brand new for just a couple of hundred more than the used and abused ones that were available in the area. The listed weight was 1150 lbs. My 2 ton HF engine hoist had no issues lifting it. All of my machines are in the basement. They all had to go down a hallway make two 90° turns and then go down the stairs. Even the 3400 lb knee mill and 1800 lb surface grinder were no problem.
Make a plan, plan for everything that could go wrong and have a contingency plan for that, and then work the plan.

Spindle speed - the more the merrier, but you will rarely if ever use it all. More important is how slow can it go. Sometimes it is the slower the better.

Gears do not slip, belts can. Belts also dry rot wear out and break, always at the most inopportune time. If properly maintained, gears will outlive you.

Mine is a 220 1ph, I have never felt a want or need for full variable speed.

WHen buying used, a fair price is very dependant on the market you live in. If there is a lot to choose from in your area prices will be less if it is slim pickings then expect to pay more. the same machine could bring double the price in one area verses a different area. The price of a new one is always just what it is reguardless of the local market.
 
Flyinfool said:
Way back when I was lathe shopping well worn used machines were selling for almost as much as a new machine. I ended up getting a 13 x 40 Gear head Jet brand new for just a couple of hundred more than the used and abused ones that were available in the area. The listed weight was 1150 lbs. My 2 ton HF engine hoist had no issues lifting it. All of my machines are in the basement. They all had to go down a hallway make two 90° turns and then go down the stairs. Even the 3400 lb knee mill and 1800 lb surface grinder were no problem.
Make a plan, plan for everything that could go wrong and have a contingency plan for that, and then work the plan.

Spindle speed - the more the merrier, but you will rarely if ever use it all. More important is how slow can it go. Sometimes it is the slower the better.

Gears do not slip, belts can. Belts also dry rot wear out and break, always at the most inopportune time. If properly maintained, gears will outlive you.

Mine is a 220 1ph, I have never felt a want or need for full variable speed.

WHen buying used, a fair price is very dependant on the market you live in. If there is a lot to choose from in your area prices will be less if it is slim pickings then expect to pay more. the same machine could bring double the price in one area verses a different area. The price of a new one is always just what it is reguardless of the local market.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have noticed the used lathes are mostly "vintage", but whether they are old or an import, they are all in rough shape. I don't want a project lathe - I want to use it. To your point, yes, the prices for used are at or above new. There are a couple sources where say a Bolton lathe can be had for considerably less, but they are out of stock all the way up the food chain to Bolton.

A $4k lathe is difficult to sell to the wife, but a $6k lathe is difficult for me to swallow for it is only a hobby and I don't know if I will get $6k of enjoyment out of it - though I might experience $2k of aggravation ($6k - $4k) if I buy the lesser lathe just like the mill I have.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll keep running in a circle until a deal on a new one comes or a decent used magically appears.

Thanks to All,
John
 
You haven't said what your budget is, so that of course has a huge impact on your options. And, as has been mentioned, your geographic location has a lot to do with used machinery availability and prices. Concerning moving heavy machinery, as has been mentioned here, it is very doable, but I would caution that lathes are very top heavy and are easily tipped over if you're not careful. I would advise having knowledgeable help available if you decide to move a heavy lathe.
Concerning spindle speeds, I can tell you that for me personally, I have a 14x40, geared head lathe with 40 to 1500 RPM spindle speed range, and I very seldom use the 1500 RPM range. On the other hand, I have used the 40 RPM range hundreds of times. Another important aspect is spindle bore diameter. Mine has a 2" spindle bore and is generally adequate, but there certainly have been times I wish it was larger. Bigger is better.
My lathe runs on 240V, three phase and I use a rotary phase converter. I have never had any desire to have it powered by a VFD. Another important factor is threading capability. Both metric and imperial capability without having to use change-gears is important to me, may not be for you.
You really need to evaluate what your needs are both present and future and make a list of the features on a lathe will be necessary to accomplish those needs.
As they say, just my two cents.
Ted

Well, it looks like you've stated your budget while I was typing.
 

PM-1340GT 13″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com www.precisionmatthews.com

PM-1440GT 14″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com www.precisionmatthews.com

Damn Yankee said:
Yes, I have noticed the used lathes are mostly "vintage", but whether they are old or an import, they are all in rough shape. I don't want a project lathe - I want to use it. To your point, yes, the prices for used are at or above new.
Click to expand...

Not sure why all the lathes are in rough shape unless you're looking at low $$$$ lathes in your area only . This is what the new PMs go for . What do you consider rough shape ? Paint ? Worn ways ? You say you wanted a knee mill and ended up with a 7 x whatever bench top and are dissappointed . Was this a new purchase ? :dunno: If you went shopping for a Caddie and bought a Yugo I see your point . As to the original questions . A geared head is better than a belt drive . Max speed is irrelavent as your minimum speed is more important . 3 phase with rotary converter I find more convenient , though others may have different opinions .

When purchasing equipment new or used , know what you need regarding the size and $$$$$ you're willing to spend . Scuffed up paint isn't considered rough shape . Check the ways , the backlash , the leadscrew , check the headstock runout for bad bearings . These things matter , the rest is only cosmetic flaws which have no bearing (NPI) on the functions or accuracy of the lathe . ;)

If I'm not mistaken , we have posted a sticky thread on buying used equipment on our site , you may want to search it out before proceeding . :)
 
FOMOGO said:
Where there's a will there's a way. I've moved 11k machinery by myself. I do have a large backhoe, and trailer with a 12k winch. Now unlike mmcmdl, I haven't managed to move one with my Johnson. Guess I need to start working out. ;) Mike
Click to expand...
At work we used pipe rollers to move 4/5000lb. hoist machines with no problem
 
mmcmdl said:

PM-1340GT 13″x40″ Ultra Precision Lathe – Precision Matthews Machinery Co.

www.precisionmatthews.com www.precisionmatthews.com




Not sure why all the lathes are in rough shape unless you're looking at low $$$$ lathes in your area only . This is what the new PMs go for . What do you consider rough shape ? Paint ? Worn ways ? You say you wanted a knee mill and ended up with a 7 x whatever bench top and are dissappointed . Was this a new purchase ? :dunno: If you went shopping for a Caddie and bought a Yugo I see your point . As to the original questions . A geared head is better than a belt drive . Max speed is irrelavent as your minimum speed is more important . 3 phase with rotary converter I find more convenient , though others may have different opinions .

When purchasing equipment new or used , know what you need regarding the size and $$$$$ you're willing to spend . Scuffed up paint isn't considered rough shape . Check the ways , the backlash , the leadscrew , check the headstock runout for bad bearings . These things matter , the rest is only cosmetic flaws which have no bearing (NPI) on the functions or accuracy of the lathe . ;)

If I'm not mistaken , we have posted a sticky thread on buying used equipment on our site , you may want to search it out before proceeding . :)
Click to expand...
I am familiar with PM stuff, but thanks for the URLs! There are "identical" lathes (Weiss) to those links you provided that are $2k cheaper but are currently "Out of Stock". My guess is when they are available, I will jump on one unless a good used suddenly appears. In my area (East Tennessee) up to 250 miles on Marketplace and Craigslist are lathes that yes, have paint peeling, but it is the rust and the environment in which it is advertised that turn me off (try it - use Morristown TN, 250 miles). I haven't personally driven 250 miles to look at one so I cannot speak about the ways, but if my first two criticisms are an indication as to ways condition, I would bet they are worn. I am not looking for a project lathe.

Thank you for the thumbs-up on the gearhead. Yes, I understand that I would prefer the lowest speed I could get, but when some top speeds are 1,400 RPM and others over 2k, my question goes to what is desirable should I elect for Carbide? And is 1,400 RPM too low for HSS and soft metal anyway? With no experience my guess is you are right about 3-phase and converter, though I would probably go electronic rather than mechanical...

Regarding the mill, I never said I was disappointed. In fact, I am rather pleased with my purchase. I knew I wasn't getting a Caddie - the decision to buy a tabletop was a matter of an old man not being able to safely move a full-sized mill in his garage and a small mill is better than none. I elected to purchase a Weiss 7" x 27" 1 HP with 3-axis DRO for $2,800 delivered. I don't think it is a Yugo and I am not complaining, in fact, I think I got quite a bit for the money. The mill did educate me on the importance of rigidity and torque as I originally commented (and that is worth something too).

Thanks for the purchasing tips. Good common sense is always welcome.

I did read the Sticky! Helpull info there.

Thanks for the reply.
John
 
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