- Joined
- Dec 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,012
They said they would when I called, I will call again to confirm before driving all the way up there though.
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Grizzly G0670 16x40 Taiwan Variable Speed Lathe
- Thread starter coolidge
- Start date
They said they would when I called, I will call again to confirm before driving all the way up there though.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2014
- Messages
- 778
Had a little time today and changed the oil in reservoir for headstock. Manual states lathe come dry, so I put in 7-8 quarts of DTE light (32). Now the manual states they ship dry and to put in DTE 68 in one place and DTE light in 2 places, so I went with the prevailing light in headstocks. Imagine my surprise when I took out 4 gallons of clean oil this morning. A few metal bits but nothing huge or alarming. Put fresh DTE 32 in and it purrs and have picked up about 15 rpms since first fired up.
Have not changed oil in carriage or gear box, I figure they ought to be used just a little before changing. I took a few cuts today, nothing heavy, turned some 1018 garbage stock and some 12L14. Using tpg inserts I got acceptable cuts but its definitely a gear head lathe, not comparable to the finish you can get with a belt feed toolroom lathe. Its early in the game, I can work on leveling, adjusting the tension on each foot of lathe (6) and feeds and speeds but its obvious its not going to easily give me the finishes I get with an EE, that is no suprise, I did not buy the lathe thinking it was going to beat a 10EE , Rivett or HLVH at the surface finish and accuracy contest. It does run smooth for a gearhead lathe, quick to speed and stop, the levers are working in and getting easier to operate. The chuck as mentioned before is easily the equal of Bison IMO. The castings are acceptable, but if you have experience on old iron from the heyday, you will see the compromises. Like all stuff from China and its nearby cousin, the controls are too close together on carriage, and the whole carriage is too small, but I grew up on the real deal, so everything from Asia looks like a compromise to me. I suspect it will fill my need of a larger lathe to complement my 10EE and take the pressure off of it for mundane work. I also look forward to take advantage of the t slot cross slide for some in line boring something that is a bit tricky on a small lathe like the EE.
As I mentioned earlier, if I thought my garage floor could have handled a 5000 lb lathe I would have pulled the trigger on a Mori or Monarch but I don't have the confidence in my floor or that I could find a good one, and get it here and installed for the price of the Green Bear. Years down the road, I will find out if I made a good choice.
Its still early in the new owner playing with his tool dept, and I have tons of work to do around the farm this time of year. Maybe tomorrow or next day I can spend some time cutting threads and using the CSS.
time for bed
michael
Have not changed oil in carriage or gear box, I figure they ought to be used just a little before changing. I took a few cuts today, nothing heavy, turned some 1018 garbage stock and some 12L14. Using tpg inserts I got acceptable cuts but its definitely a gear head lathe, not comparable to the finish you can get with a belt feed toolroom lathe. Its early in the game, I can work on leveling, adjusting the tension on each foot of lathe (6) and feeds and speeds but its obvious its not going to easily give me the finishes I get with an EE, that is no suprise, I did not buy the lathe thinking it was going to beat a 10EE , Rivett or HLVH at the surface finish and accuracy contest. It does run smooth for a gearhead lathe, quick to speed and stop, the levers are working in and getting easier to operate. The chuck as mentioned before is easily the equal of Bison IMO. The castings are acceptable, but if you have experience on old iron from the heyday, you will see the compromises. Like all stuff from China and its nearby cousin, the controls are too close together on carriage, and the whole carriage is too small, but I grew up on the real deal, so everything from Asia looks like a compromise to me. I suspect it will fill my need of a larger lathe to complement my 10EE and take the pressure off of it for mundane work. I also look forward to take advantage of the t slot cross slide for some in line boring something that is a bit tricky on a small lathe like the EE.
As I mentioned earlier, if I thought my garage floor could have handled a 5000 lb lathe I would have pulled the trigger on a Mori or Monarch but I don't have the confidence in my floor or that I could find a good one, and get it here and installed for the price of the Green Bear. Years down the road, I will find out if I made a good choice.
Its still early in the new owner playing with his tool dept, and I have tons of work to do around the farm this time of year. Maybe tomorrow or next day I can spend some time cutting threads and using the CSS.
time for bed
michael
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2013
- Messages
- 858
Well maybe you should make a pilgrimage down to DoubleeBoy's house instead of up to Bellingham...
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 285
Coolidge, please take this in the spirit it was given. I fear that if your main reason in purchasing this particular lathe, is quality of surface finish, you probably will be disappointed. Unless we are discussing larger diameters, interrupted cuts, heavier depths of cut and feeds with carbide tooling, you should expect the same surface finish with either machine. Of course weight and rigidity are always a good thing, but with properly sharpened hss or a sharp positive rake insert, you should expect the same finish regardless of whether it is a 12" or 16" machine. Gearhead vs. belt drive and single phase vs. 3phase have more impact on surface finish IMHO.
Is that amount of swing necessary? If so will you be happy with the 40" center distance? Often times having a longer bed length is as important as swing dia.
I am just playing devils advocate here. I think Tim has a excellent idea as well. Prying open a crate in a showroom is wise of course, but talking to a person who owns one and seeing it in action would be my choice. Of course if I had the money it would be a Watcheon or Mori.
All this aside, if you need a larger lathe and use it as Michael plans to use his, this still may be a very good choice for you.
Darrell
Am I not picky enough? I am very happy with the surface of the stuff I turn on my G4003G. Of course I would love a bigger lathe but that is more of a Tim Taylor more power thing. I've turned a lot of aluminum and it leaves a nice sheen minus chatter marks. I also turn a great deal of 1018 and of course that isn't perfect but I want a bit of texture in this stuff for grip so a quick pass with a bit of emery cloth gives the desired result. I recently did a project with 4140 and though I did use Vipers venom oil with 360 emery cloth to get the polished surface I wanted the initial cut surface was very nice.
Dave
Dave
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2014
- Messages
- 778
Cool,
I know nothing of your lathe or how it is set up. If its a Pratt and Whitney 12x36, you have a gem weighting a ton or more, if you have the typical 12x36 chinese lathe on a sheet metal stand then that is a different ball of wax. I don't know much about your experience on different machines so do not take this as criticism if you all ready know this.....
Surface finish can be compromised by
1. flimsy stands
2. crappy floors
3. single phase power, or power that is not consistent in frequency or voltage
4. gear heads that transmit vibration as apposed to a nice belt drive lathe
5. type of bearings and how well they are mounted. ABEC 7 bearings that are matched are gonna be worlds better than the swill they put in $2K 12x36 lathes. Call Monarch up and ask em how much for a new set of bearings for a 10EE or 1000EE... gonna cost more than any chinese 12x36 lathe does. likewise a leadscrew for a 10EE is stupid expensive, but if you want to cut beautiful threads......
6. tooling , how sharp, what radius, positive or negative rake, what speeds what feeds, are you going to put back pressure on the carriage feed, are you going to lean on lathe, you better not move, or it will show unless your machine is the rock of Gibraltar .
If surface finish was my # 1 concern on my recent purchase I would have bought an old Southbend belt drive lathe and hand scraped the bearings myself or better yet found someone with a better clue and had them do it for me. But I still would have had a light duty lathe. Plain bearings, belt drive are very desirable for surface finish. Almost no one uses plain bearing because the wear, are difficult to scrape in properly to close tolerances. I believe DSG was the last company to make a heavy duty lathe with plain bearings.
I made a compromise in what I bought, I knew that going in. 13K for a new 1640 is comical. The Koreans would charge 30K, Japan does not make manual lathes anymore. Monarch would rebuild your old 1640 for you and would likely run 50K plus. You want great surface finish and heavy duty, I am not sure its going to happen. If I just wanted to do small work and surface finish was my plum, I would look at Wade toolroom lathe, Hendey toolroom lathe, HLVH, Monarch 10EE or 1000EE, Rivett, the rare Sidney and Southbend imitations of the 10EE or the Euro precision machines which I have never seen.
If I wanted hogging capability (that is relative) I would look at PM 1640HD and then get a pristine little toolroom lathe for finish work. I don't pretend to know all about lathes, surface finish, or machining, I do know that people do admirable work on HF 7 x 10s and dreadful work on much more esteemed equipment. Myself I enjoy using well thought out tools, certainly the 10ee qualifies, the Griz 1640 I think will fill a void for me and give me a back up when my 60 year old lathe takes a vacation. I would not pretend for a minute that it is anything but a price point machine that covers a lot of bases rather well and excels in the variable speed with torque dept, but in the end is a light to medium duty gear head lathe made by people who don't give a rip about building the best ever.
Your needs or wants may be way different than mine. If you want to see it go round and round, you are welcome with advance notice. I like Laphroaig whiskey, but am flexible.
One last thought, if you are looking for beef and well built, if you see a Mazak manual 16" run fast with cash in hand. They are very, very nice, but rare, built like a Mori.
michael
I know nothing of your lathe or how it is set up. If its a Pratt and Whitney 12x36, you have a gem weighting a ton or more, if you have the typical 12x36 chinese lathe on a sheet metal stand then that is a different ball of wax. I don't know much about your experience on different machines so do not take this as criticism if you all ready know this.....
Surface finish can be compromised by
1. flimsy stands
2. crappy floors
3. single phase power, or power that is not consistent in frequency or voltage
4. gear heads that transmit vibration as apposed to a nice belt drive lathe
5. type of bearings and how well they are mounted. ABEC 7 bearings that are matched are gonna be worlds better than the swill they put in $2K 12x36 lathes. Call Monarch up and ask em how much for a new set of bearings for a 10EE or 1000EE... gonna cost more than any chinese 12x36 lathe does. likewise a leadscrew for a 10EE is stupid expensive, but if you want to cut beautiful threads......
6. tooling , how sharp, what radius, positive or negative rake, what speeds what feeds, are you going to put back pressure on the carriage feed, are you going to lean on lathe, you better not move, or it will show unless your machine is the rock of Gibraltar .
If surface finish was my # 1 concern on my recent purchase I would have bought an old Southbend belt drive lathe and hand scraped the bearings myself or better yet found someone with a better clue and had them do it for me. But I still would have had a light duty lathe. Plain bearings, belt drive are very desirable for surface finish. Almost no one uses plain bearing because the wear, are difficult to scrape in properly to close tolerances. I believe DSG was the last company to make a heavy duty lathe with plain bearings.
I made a compromise in what I bought, I knew that going in. 13K for a new 1640 is comical. The Koreans would charge 30K, Japan does not make manual lathes anymore. Monarch would rebuild your old 1640 for you and would likely run 50K plus. You want great surface finish and heavy duty, I am not sure its going to happen. If I just wanted to do small work and surface finish was my plum, I would look at Wade toolroom lathe, Hendey toolroom lathe, HLVH, Monarch 10EE or 1000EE, Rivett, the rare Sidney and Southbend imitations of the 10EE or the Euro precision machines which I have never seen.
If I wanted hogging capability (that is relative) I would look at PM 1640HD and then get a pristine little toolroom lathe for finish work. I don't pretend to know all about lathes, surface finish, or machining, I do know that people do admirable work on HF 7 x 10s and dreadful work on much more esteemed equipment. Myself I enjoy using well thought out tools, certainly the 10ee qualifies, the Griz 1640 I think will fill a void for me and give me a back up when my 60 year old lathe takes a vacation. I would not pretend for a minute that it is anything but a price point machine that covers a lot of bases rather well and excels in the variable speed with torque dept, but in the end is a light to medium duty gear head lathe made by people who don't give a rip about building the best ever.
Your needs or wants may be way different than mine. If you want to see it go round and round, you are welcome with advance notice. I like Laphroaig whiskey, but am flexible.
One last thought, if you are looking for beef and well built, if you see a Mazak manual 16" run fast with cash in hand. They are very, very nice, but rare, built like a Mori.
michael
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2014
- Messages
- 285
A man has to know his limitations.
If the length suits you and is in good condition, there is no need to drive to Bellingham. Michaels post sums it all up. Darrell