Grizzly G5963 Surface Grinder (6 x 12), is it worth it and can it hold tolerances < 1 tenth?

Don’t buy a single phase hobby machine to run a business with. Thats my opinion whether it’s a grinder, mill, or lathe.

$10k isn’t nearly enough. Borrow a $100k and buy a shop that’s already standing, with a couple years of consulting baked into the buy. Small shops are shutting down all the time as the owners age out, and retire.

There are forums dedicated specifically to professional machining. You should spend some time with those guys, before you start hitting the buy button.
 
Did you check out this video @BladesIIB made? He’s had it a couple years now, so should have some good experience with it by now. Send Bud a message, I’m sure he would be more than willing to help you with your decision.


Thanks for the reply.

Yes I have watched his video, very informative.
 
Look at clough42 I think on utube. He has a bunch of machinist videos and I believe he has either a grizzly or a pm light weight surface grinder that he goes through owning.
 
I don't think you are going to get anywhere near the tolerances you are expecting with that import grinder or a variant of it. What that machine is in essence a milling machine with grinding wheel for a head. Look at the base of the saddle and the over arm to the wheel head, they are dove tail slides with significant cantilever. Where as a boyar-schultz, Harig, or B&S Micro master, all have box ways to a surrounding column, and the table assembly has a large foot print so that the center of gravity to the working envelope is always within said foot print. The Micro master goes a step further with a traveling column instead of table and saddle. This is needed when holding sub tenths. Even if you got that Grizzly surface grinder hand scraped to perfection, I would imagine a few tenths of deflection at the out extremes of travel.

Who that surface grinder is meant for is creators who want a ground finish and milling machine tolerance. Things like knife blades, sheet metal punches and dies, and such.
Making milling fixtures that can be brought to the mill and treated as absolute perfect references, needs one of the aforementioned quality grinders. And I don't think you will find one for less that triple your budget, or the equivalent amount of labor.

I had my own saga with my Harig surface grinder. $500usd plus import from Vermont, and a few years of on and off work of re- scraping it. There is a lot more to hand scraping that just rubbing blue paint and scraping the iron. You need a reference that can be articulated to the working surface, and a means of checking overall alignment. At first I was using three marble slabs that had been lapped together to make one straight edge, and a pair of precision levels. I don’t recommend this method as I had been doing a fool’s errand much of the time trying to remove a twist. In the bed and saddle. The real break through was getting an 8- and 4-foot cast iron straight edge. Verifying them with the autocollimator, and checking for twist on a large granite plate. It was very much a pleasant surprise to have ground a 12in, 1in by 1in piece of cold role steel come to the granite and with about one ten thousandths arch over the granite and less than that in discrepancy with the micrometer along its length.

In those years I spent more time improving my machines that producing with them. For your desires, a new Chevalier or Kent surface grinder may be what you are after if the budget is not out of reach.

Thanks for the informative reply.

Seems like the B&S Micromaster is very popular to be bought used, I haven't found anyone complaining about it.
Would it be a better option if I buy a used Micromaster and have a higher probability of holding sub-tenths with some care?
I wouldn't mind scraping it, however not sure what will be the most expensive repair components in worst a case scenario and if any of the replacement components still available to be bought new.

I heard of it coming in two flavors, manual or hydraulic.
Everyone seems to prefer the hydraulic and I wonder if the hydraulic parts could be found new.
If I do any searches on the micromaster on youtube I find mostly auctions of it being sold. No video of the micromaster being scraped/rebuilt. Hope I can get some guidance on that, you have vast experience on it.

Found a Chevalier for $4K, seems to be promising:

I now think maybe a used Moore Jig grinder might be a more viable option to hold sub-tenths on parts.
It should be able to surface grinder all shapes and sizes of parts, much more intuitive than a regular surface grinder. What are your thoughts on this?
 
@Unix I have the G5963 and as mentioned above, I have a video out there about it. Other than my own wiring fiasco with it, the grinder has served me well. I would have liked one with stepper motors and some automation, but for the amount of grinding I do the manual aspect of this one has not been a huge issue. As mentioned by @Alexander McGilton I don't think I would use this small unit to make parallels or other fixtures and expect sub tenth type tolerance. I love the machine, but I would say 2 tenths is about what I would claim for accuracy over 5-6 inches and 2" wide. I did not grind the chuck in, so that could maybe get a little better but this is an entry level machine and for what you are asking it to do, I think you would want a larger machine and probably one with coolant for sure, automated for consistent feed would be another recommendation to get what you want. I hope that helps, and all the best getting your shop together. I spend a lot of time in my shop and can't imagine life without it. Happy New Year!

Thank You very much for this helpful information about it holding 2 tenths.
I will now steer away from the Grizzly SG and now look into a used B&S Micromaster / Chevalier or Kent.
 
Max budget $10K and need three machines: CNC mill, lathe and surface grinder.
I'm retired from owning my own business. If this venture is to be your sole income, you need to reconsider the idea. Startup costs will be more than your budget, w/o machinery! Just the delay inherent in the costs that go into you product and getting paid will eat up more! I highly recommend you do this as a moonlighting gig first. Basic tooling & setup costs will be more than your machine budget. Wearing all hats means spending time as your salesman, secretary, accountant, janitor, all taking time. Are you going to stock materials? Is your customer willing to wait for you to order materials? Can you afford to buy in large enough lots to get some sort of a price break? Then there is the issue of managing workflow to keep a steady income.
 
One could easily buy a good used B&S Micromaster 6 X 18 for less than is being asked for the Grizzly, the Micromaster also has hydraulic drive on both X and Y travels, grinds wet and most of them seem to have electromagnetic chucks and Neutrofiers.

Thank you for the reply.
Have any recommendation a reliable source? I have contacted one reseller but no reply.

I have found a used B&S Micromaster few weeks ago from "galleryofmachines.com".
They're selling it for $3,500.

It looks in bad shape although I could be wrong...:
6444B&SMicro (1).jpg



They say it is guaranteed to hold 3-tenths:

SG.jpg



You think if I buy this used, I might be able to restore it to hold sub-tenths or I'll be chasing for a mouse trap?
 
I don't care what grinder you buy, holding sub-tenths is going to be tough.
And with that grinder at this price and no coolant, I don't think it will happen consistently.
I have an old Reid surface grinder and have tried to grind a part and afterwards measure it on my surface plate and it is pretty humbling.
Joe

Thanks for the reply.

I know Reid is a good surface grinder.
I watched videos on Youtube of it's operation where Don from Suburban tools uses them:

How To Square a Part within .0001 on a Surface Grinder:
 
The used market is mixed bag, no surprise in saying that. A well cared for quality machine won't go out the door for less than a sizeable sum. A new grizzly machine has it's place for turn key operation reasonable flatness of work. The Harig and Boyar-Schultz I had, came with several thou, not tenths of wear, in the table. Looking at a barn find with rusted handles and table top is not something to reach for unless you intend to scrape it.

Of the units available from grizzly, the next two sizes up appear to a better value, for the shape of the castings as I mentioned prior, no dovetail ways and the bigger foot print.

On the topic of coolant, it is nice to have but a necessity. I mean, I use it as it is quieter than a vacuum and is very effective at keeping dust down. If you take the time to spark out the part and take fine passes, yes you can get very flat dry. How else do you get the chuck flat on a dry grinder? The answer is to take minimal off while taking shallow increments crosswise. Wet grinding becomes essential in production tasks, where your wheel height is calibrated and the part is .001-.010 over size, and you want to one pass it to dimension. When you are making a one time complex part, you can afford the time to let it cool, take your time to approach dimension, and take next to next to nothing passes.

Thanks for the reply.

So the Grizzly G3104 should be able to hold sub-tenths?:

I have seen Tom from "Hill Top Machine Works" not able to rebuild his new used Boyar-Schultz back to spec due to a worn out lead screw and had sell it:

Could there be a situation like this on a B&S Micromaster where I would need to sell it due to something being terribly worn out and need expensive replacement? I assume the micromaster does not use leadscrew if I buy the hydraulic version?
 
Don't give up on decent used. This is my $4500 Kent 10x20. Came from a one man custom shop with little use. The guy knew how to use it and was willing to show it could hold tenths. Sub tenths is a different deal but machines can be finessed if they are built well enough. Three axis feed, coolant ( I seldom use ) extra wheels, and DRO. If you want smaller, add Mitsui to your list. Takes some patience but can be done. Dave

Thank you for this helpful info.

So I have these on my list on the look out from top being most valued if it makes sense:

B&S Micromaster
Mitsui
Chevalier
Kent
 
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