Help getting the first milling essentials

[Jim F]

Yep - I knew I could rely on you guys!
Given the subject title of this thread, it is going to get searched and lurked by beginners, and there is already a ton of good stuff.
My thanks to @Lo-Fi for the UK links.

@Jim F answers the question about what a chuck is used for.
So my My Mill Rules #1 is - Chucks are only ever used for holding drill bits.
This naturally leads to the #1 consequentials. Cutters go in collets, or tapers. Taps also.
I am bound to discover more no-no's.

Just for information, I spotter a batch of cutters going cheap in eBay auction. Maybe the reason is the threaded ends.

View attachment 346509

Only now that my attention is on cutters, I see it, but I never noticed it before. Is this a "standard" or common thing? Would cutters like that still be usable in a collet? That would look a bit short, but what do I know? FYI - I passed on those.

My Mill Rule #2. Pay attention to collets!
I am going to go with the advice from @DavidR8 that ER32 is a OK collet size range to work in a MT3
The #10 post from @markba633csi suggests that 1/4" or 3/8" endmills are a suitable size. So 6mm to 10mm.
I looked at charts on --> This handy page --> https://littlemachineshop.com/info/er_collet_sizes.php
ER32 can do 1mm to 20mm, and is, I suppose, about the largest that can fit up a Morse Taper MT3

I know one can splurge on a whole set, or take the approach of building up a set, buying the size as the need arises.
Here we are going to run into "which collets"? Chinese or not? Can they be crap? What about the MT3 collet chuck? What are the warning signs? I suppose if the deal looks too good to be true, it probably is.
Given the South Bends have MT3 spindle as well, the collet set can be used there also.

The vise.
As important as the collets. Pretty much you don't do anything without it. I might go for something like @Lo-Fi suggests.

Parallels?
Sure, we can make them. The thing is, ground bar is already super accurate. It looks as if one can simply cut up some hardenable bar, finish the ends, and heat them up some with a plumbing torch.

Just for some orientation. Consider (say) a first collet set of 6 covering from about 3/16" to 3/4" plus collet chuck. (about 4.5mm to 20mm).
For reasonable quality, would $120 to $150 be enough? (about £90 to £113)

Thanks for @AmericanMachinist providing the link to Abom79. Oodles of stuff there. I do consider YT as my greatest education tool, but I also know that there are not enough hours in my life to watch even the stuff in my line of interest. Links from HM members help zero in on stuff they already filtered.

Thanks @Mitch Alsup as well. 4 flutes for steel. 2 flutes for aluminium!
I have quite a lot to absorb here. I will post questions/stumbles as they arise.
One thing that is not up to the job is the re-purposed COVID-19 plastic face shield. I take it that without protection, hot chips will make it into the eyes !

Taps go in a tap wrench, either style.
Those endmills with threads will work, they are from a co. over that makes a holder for them, but is not require.
As a side note, I have 3, 1/4" versions of those endmills.

Threaded endmills ?

These came in a box of end mills from an estate sale. Anyone ever see these? I can make out "Clarkson", 1/4 and England on the shanks.

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[graham-xrf]

There has been a lot of information put forward as to what to buy and what to make. If you're new to the hobby I would stick with Jim F's short list for the near term. You can spend many times what the machine cost and still barely scratch the surface of the tools and tooling available. If you jump in with both feet it's likely you'll buy things you may never use or need and just waste money.

Get your feet on the ground with minimal cost and learn from there. As your interest and skills progress you can buy what you need. One piece of advice that has always stuck with me came from a previous boss. If YOU THINK you need a tool or tooling to complete a job you probably do need it. If A SALESMAN tries to tell you you need a tool or tooling you probably don't. Consider everyone here giving advise as a salesman. They're not spending their money, but rather telling you how to spend your money.

Keep in mind this is your first machine. In a year or two you may find you would like a different machine. If you load up on tooling and accessories specific to this machine you may find they won't work on another. If that's the case you'll have to once again spend money on tooling.

On this one, pretty much everything I get so far would be useful on the lathe, or can be kept should the machine someday get replaced for something bigger. I am not too worried about that. By the time I am a far enough into the stuff I would apply it to, this kit won't owe me anything much.

 

[graham-xrf]

Check out the Cormak "Starter Kit"
Seen on the Cormak site, the tooling set that can be purchased. It's £732.14 ($981.06). [Edit: at rate $1.34 --> £1.00]



I can see the collet chuck, and what the carbide muncher at bottom left does seems obvious, but an explanation of bottom row, item second along, from the left would be nice. This description is from the manufacturer site..

Set contains:
1. Set of end mills (9 pcs.):

NFPA FI 3,0 8/52 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 4,0 11/55 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 5,0 13/57 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 6,0 13/57 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 8,0 19/69 Z4 HB10 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 10,0 22/72 Z4 HB10 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 12,0 26/83 Z4 HB12 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 14,0 26/83 Z4 HB12 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 16,0 32/92 Z4 HB16 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT

2. Set of sleeves 7618-32 2-20 (18 pcs.)

3. Set of taps M3-M12 DIN-371B / DIN-376B (6H) HSSE OX CZP-8 OPTI

4. Set of taps M3-M12 DIN-371C / DIN-376C R40 (6H) HSSE OX CZP-8 OPTI

5. Set of drill bits NWKA FI 1.00-13.00MM (25 pcs) HSS PRO

6. Tool holder MK3.A70.ER32

7. Spindle 7430-3-22-51 APX

8. Folding cutter head FI 63.0 K90 ° 22/47 Z3 d22 220.17

9. TPKN 1603 PDSKR SM25 plate set (10 pcs.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I am going to pass on that lot for now. Seems a tad steep, but then again, I don't really know the value in some of that stuff.

This experience is made a little strange for me because most folk already have the shop before the machine. I am into stuff like getting the order in on items for the shop construction. The blocks, render, roof tiles, insulation, the water supply bits, steel mesh and rebar. Egg-on-face moment is to get all excited, and thinking about the "uncrating" moment, and realize that benches and storage deserved some foresight. Said mill would be sat there on empty floor, with vise and drawbar beside it, and maybe a few collets rolling about!

[EDIT: Am I now going to first get into woodwork? ! ]

 

[Jim F]

Check out the Cormak "Starter Kit"
Seen on the Cormak site, the tooling set that can be purchased. It's £732.14 ($973.70).

View attachment 346555

I can see the collet chuck, and what the carbide muncher at bottom left does seems obvious, but an explanation of bottom row, item second along, from the left would be nice. This description is from the manufacturer site..

Set contains:
1. Set of end mills (9 pcs.):

NFPA FI 3,0 8/52 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 4,0 11/55 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 5,0 13/57 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 6,0 13/57 Z4 HB6 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 8,0 19/69 Z4 HB10 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 10,0 22/72 Z4 HB10 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 12,0 26/83 Z4 HB12 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 14,0 26/83 Z4 HB12 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT
NFPA FI 16,0 32/92 Z4 HB16 HSSE BK-MN EL-CUT

2. Set of sleeves 7618-32 2-20 (18 pcs.)

3. Set of taps M3-M12 DIN-371B / DIN-376B (6H) HSSE OX CZP-8 OPTI

4. Set of taps M3-M12 DIN-371C / DIN-376C R40 (6H) HSSE OX CZP-8 OPTI

5. Set of drill bits NWKA FI 1.00-13.00MM (25 pcs) HSS PRO

6. Tool holder MK3.A70.ER32

7. Spindle 7430-3-22-51 APX

8. Folding cutter head FI 63.0 K90 ° 22/47 Z3 d22 220.17

9. TPKN 1603 PDSKR SM25 plate set (10 pcs.)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I am going to pass on that lot for now. Seems a tad steep, but then again, I don't really know the value in some of that stuff.

This experience is made a little strange for me because most folk already have the shop before the machine. I am into stuff like getting the order in on items for the shop construction. The blocks, render, roof tiles, insulation, the water supply bits, steel mesh and rebar. Egg-on-face moment is to get all excited, and thinking about the "uncrating" moment, and realize that benches and storage deserved some foresight. Said mill would be sat there on empty floor, with vise and drawbar beside it, and maybe a few collets rolling about!

[EDIT: Am I now going to first get into woodwork? ! ]

that is the arbor for the facemill.

 

[Buffalo21]

Cubic Dollars

 

[graham-xrf]

Cubic Dollars

?? Sorry Jack - that one went over me. Had me looking for a typo. Did I mess up?
Re: Dollars. Yes. The pound-dollar rate has been going all over the place. Today it is $1.34.
Regardless, pounds or dollars, I thought there were waaaay to much of them needed!

Nearly a $Grand needed for that stuff! £732.14 ($973.70).

 

[graham-xrf]

that is the arbor for the facemill.

OK - then facemill = the carbide carousel with the 4 inserts. The 10-set of triangular carbide bits don't appear to have holes.
I don't yet understand how that lot goes together, but I will figure it out shortly.

 

[Flyinfool]

first question is do you have a specific part or type of parts that you will be making? This can dictate the needed tooling.
If there is no specific need up front then start minimalist with the understanding that for a while most things you do will require expenditure on more tooling.

By staying with this small amount of the basics you will have more cash to buy better quality, you will apreciate that down the road. Buying a lot of cheap junk just to get a lot up front that you may have no use for will have you replacing it down the road with the good stuff you should have got up front.

The basics will be;
drill chuck
Drill bits
Hold down device, clamp set and or vice.
End mills 6 to 10 mm (1/4 to 3/8)
Holders for end mills
Tap wrench and set of taps.

 

[markba633csi]

I would not purchase a face-mill right away, use conventional endmills first for a while. You may find a simple fly-cutter is more suitable for your machine.
-Mark

 

[graham-xrf]

first question is do you have a specific part or type of parts that you will be making? This can dictate the needed tooling.
If there is no specific need up front then start minimalist with the understanding that for a while most things you do will require expenditure on more tooling.

By staying with this small amount of the basics you will have more cash to buy better quality, you will apreciate that down the road. Buying a lot of cheap junk just to get a lot up front that you may have no use for will have you replacing it down the road with the good stuff you should have got up front.

The basics will be;
drill chuck
Drill bits
Hold down device, clamp set and or vice.
End mills 6 to 10 mm (1/4 to 3/8)
Holders for end mills
Tap wrench and set of taps.

We are partly there already. The mill comes with a chuck. I have drill bits, including multiples of those I use (and break) the most of.
I will be getting the clamp set suggested by @Lo-Fi , and one of the milling vices.
I have ordered a pair of end mills. I have been told I am likely to break them fairly regularly.
I am still shopping around over a collet holder, and a few collets in a set.

I do have tap wrench sets, and a hand wrench, as one does when messing with engines, but they are the cheapo carbon steel kind. HSS is probably now needed. I also need to pick through the stuff that came with the lathe. There are various reamers and suchlike, still in the anti-rust paper, and little boxes of drill sets.

I have to thank all you guys so much. Really supportive!