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[4]

If you need gears... Print them...

January Project of the Month [3]
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wa5cab

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#31
I don't know enough about the process to know how necessary it is nor what the pressure involved is. But the machine shown in the photograph in most of the MOLO's operates at what I would guess is a fairly high pressure.
 

7milesup

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#32
As far as material to use to print gears. PLA the easiest to print is the most brittle and weakest, however oil doesn't degrade it. ABS I would NOT recommend because of the problems with both warping and need to exhaust the fumes, PETG is better here, but Nylon is even better.

IF you want to learn a bit more four people with u-tube channels I could recommend are;

Thomas Sanladerer:

Makers Muse

3D Maker Noob

3D Printing Nerd

One last thing, I am waiting for the Prusa MK3 from Prusa Research, because I want a better printer to work with, and Josef Prusa is the originator of the I3 design, the chinese are so fond of cloning. Should arrive at the end of the month.

I purchased a Prusa MK2 from Josef in November, about 2 weeks before he announced the Mk3. I will have to say, I love that printer. Mine has been pretty much flawless, plus you get the support via online chat or email from Prusa Research. Just can't say enough good things about the Prusa. I am tired of the Chinese copying everything, and I chose to support Josef Prusa. Yes, it cost some money, but most good things do.

Also, the Creality CR-10 would be on my list of printers to try if you want to go inexpensive. You can also get it pre-built, but then you are looking at a fair amount of money. Creality CR-10 Pre-Built

I have printed numerous items from PETG and I am surprised at how strong they are.
 

cdhknives

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#33
Just to compare, what is the expected cost to have the following gears printed:

9-101-20A 20-T gear for feed screw tumbler
9-101-24A 24-T gear for feed screw tumbler
9-100-32 Spindle gear

I got a quote from Clausing this morning (1/18/2018) and new replacements are in stock for $42.76, $42.92, and $31.68. I figure I would have to get at least 2 of each in a better quality Nylon or better at this price to make it worthwhile...
 

7milesup

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#34
That seems very expensive for a 3D printed part. Heck, maybe I should start doing this. If you have a 3D drawing or STL file I could take a look for you.
 

cdhknives

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#35
The prices I posted are replacement metal parts which should be the equal of Zamak originals. Use those prices as comparison when deciding if printed plastic gears are really worth buying. They are NOT 3D printed plastic! I do not know if they are new old stock or modern manufacture, but they are from the company that bought Atlas decades ago.
 

ttabbal

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#36
There's a thingiverse link above with the files. Based on the sizes, I wouldn't expect more than $10/ea in nylon, depending on exactly how much filament is needed, as nylon can be on the more expensive side. It's also kind of a pain to print for a lot of people. So things to consider. I do think it's probably one of the best available filaments for this though.

I also like the idea of doing a cast replacement, but I don't have a foundry running so I can't comment on the costs there. :)
 

larry4406

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#37
I thought it was pretty cool of Mr Pete to intentionally increase the radial depth of cut until the lathe locked up (stopped spinning) as the belt slipped; no broken gear teeth on the 100% filled gear.

He also printed gears of different fill % and showed how the teeth snapped via pliers abuse to qualitatively show the strength of the teeth.

I could see getting a 3D printer in the future but doubt I would be a sufficient CAD monkey to create the model and driver files.
 

7milesup

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#38
One other thought about these gears and 3D printing. If you want stronger gears (as far as teeth are concerned) and a much quieter running machine would be to use helical gears. I realize all would have to be changed but for someone that is missing a number of gears, that might be a viable option too. The guy I work with has a plug-in for gear making on Solidworks.
 

wa5cab

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#39
The prices I posted are replacement metal parts which should be the equal of Zamak originals. Use those prices as comparison when deciding if printed plastic gears are really worth buying. They are NOT 3D printed plastic! I do not know if they are new old stock or modern manufacture, but they are from the company that bought Atlas decades ago.
First a minor correction - Clausing didn't buy Atlas. During the period late 1949 early 1950, Atlas bought Clausing. There are essentially no records or information surviving but it appears that in about the mid 1960's, former Clausing employees got the upper hand and changed the company name to Clausing. They also forced the Atlas contingent to change their part numbering system to the Clausing version. Fortunately, it was only applied to new parts, not existing ones. Unfortunately, it was applied to revisions of existing parts.

Back to the subject at hand, the current Clausing prices on gears reflect current or recent manufacturing costs. The gears (and half nuts) are relatively new, not NOS. The price of the change gears is competitive with Boston if you include the cost of tooling and labor to modify the Boston blanks so that they can be used.
 

wa5cab

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#41
I doubt that it would last more than a few weeks. Plastic isn't strong enough for the set screw, the Woodruff key, or the direct drive pin, spring and set screw. And the index holes would be easily damaged.
 

coherent

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#42
I use some PLA in my 3D printer that is pretty strong stuff. You can print it with any price range printer and when the part is done you can aneal it on a baking sheet in your oven. Its high temp resistant also. There are a number of new high strength filaments out there and the list is growing. I was just reading about a carbon fiber filament that is supposed to be really strong. Do a search for high strength filaments and you'll be surprised what's out there.

I've had my printer for a little over a year. Import clone of a dual extruder FlashForge Creator by a China company called Qidi. I beleive I only paid about 600 for it through Amazon and although they have gone up a little, they have upgraded models now. I'm happy with it. There are plenty of other companies making 3D printers now which has kept prices reasonably low so lots of choices. Tons of aftermarket parts and filaments available and the field is still growing. Once you have one, it's amazing all the little plastics do dads and parts you can make. Then you can tell your wife... "look dear, I made a new window screen frame corner, it only cost me $650". But seriously, they do come in handy and hey, who doesn't want a new toy.. err tool?
 
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clif

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#44
Just for reference

Tensile Yield Strength

Zamac 30,200 psi

Aluminum 6061-T6 40000 psi

PLA 9500 psi

ABS 4,300 psi

Nylon 5,800 psi

Polycarbonate 10,000 psi

PVC 6,500 psi

1018 steel 63800 psi

12L14 steel 78300 psi
 

Round in circles

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#45
That's actually pretty clever. You'll still need a furnace to fire the crucible in and need final finish (like a lot of castings) but overall, I'd say it's a fairly novel approach.

With the right metal powder and a furnace that's hot enough, you'd certainly get your gears out of it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I suspect that using an induction ring & a slow speed lifiting motor device to move the coil instead of a furnace to bring thing up to fusing temperatures will be much easier
 
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Round in circles

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#46
Just for reference

Tensile Yield Strength

Zamac 30,200 psi

Aluminum 6061-T6 40000 psi

PLA 9500 psi

ABS 4,300 psi

Nylon 5,800 psi

Polycarbonate 10,000 psi

PVC 6,500 psi

1018 steel 63800 psi

12L14 steel 78300 psi
Have you got shear figures for them all for the same thicknesses rather than tensile strength ?

The meshing of the teeth on the plastic gears appears to show two faces incontact all the time , so shear strength will be high . One thing that's crossed my mind is that you might keep the web of the gears holow honey combed but make the teeth and a few mm of their feet roots solid . That would allow a lot of wear & shear strength .

Dear Santa Clause ,
If I'm good can I have a decent 3D printer ?
 

Wxm88

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#48
Cool. I am actually in need for some threading gears. Can you guys make some recommendation on what 3D printer to get? I don't know much about the 3D printer at all.
 

Dave Paine

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#49
Cool. I am actually in need for some threading gears. Can you guys make some recommendation on what 3D printer to get? I don't know much about the 3D printer at all.
I happen to have purchased a Creality CR10S printer this week. An updated model of the one MrPete222 has. It is easy to assemble and is working.

I am finding there is a lot of learning curve to how to tweak the settings in the slicing software. This software converts the STL CAD files into GCode for the printer. One part printed but back quality. I ran the same part through different slicer software and got an incomplete print, inside wall was not solid.

The 3D printers are often made in China, like mine. Instructions were minimal. The software on the SD card was corrupt, and likely is still be copied as corrupt.

Whatever printer you get, check for community forums before you purchase. You will get better support from such a forum more than the manufacturer.

I can see having a lot of fun with this once I get over the learning curve.
 

FarmDad

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#51
My Creality 10S should be here Monday and the price of gears from Clausing is what pushed me over the edge . I figure I can print a LOT of replacements not to mention other stuff and come out ahead .

Thanks to the OP for this thread because it honestly hadn't ocured to me to buy a printer to play with until I saw it LOL .
 

Wxm88

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#52
My Creality 10S should be here Monday and the price of gears from Clausing is what pushed me over the edge . I figure I can print a LOT of replacements not to mention other stuff and come out ahead .

Thanks to the OP for this thread because it honestly hadn't ocured to me to buy a printer to play with until I saw it LOL .
I am on the same boat. Please keep us updated on the Creality.
 

FarmDad

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#53
It arrived yesterday . Assembly was straightforward as long as you paid attention to the axis labels on the cableing. The unlabeled cable goes on the " string sensor limit switch " . The included instructions are worthless so head to Youtube for unboxing and assembly videos. As far as that topic goes about the best and most understandable I found was by this fella https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC55pmMthdArS4MV1x9FT9nQ I did not get the table trammed yet ( They say level the table , but you need to think of it like tramming a mill using a piece of paper to set the gap between the print head and print surface at least on the corners and center ) . Not sure how much time to mess with it I will have now until next week .

Edited to add ..

Once I get it squirting plastic as it should one of the first things I will print is one of the dial indicator holders on thingieverse ( same site as the gears ) that can be found by searching for CR-10 . That should make keeping it in tram a lot easier .
 
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4gsr

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#54

Dave Paine

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#55
Once I get it squirting plastic as it should one of the first things I will print is one of the dial indicator holders on thingieverse ( same site as the gears ) that can be found by searching for CR-10 . That should make keeping it in tram a lot easier .
The instructions are not worth much. It is good that there are many YouTube videos for this printer.

MyFordBoy has a dial indicator support for the CR10 printer. I printed this. I had to drill out the hole for the indicator shaft since my indicators seem to have slightly larger shaft diameter than his, but this was easy.

Dial indicator for CR10

The springs on the adjustment screws are easy to push, so using the paper level method will give inconsistent results. The dial indicator will not push the screws much. I found just touching the screw knob would move the bed, so need a light touch.

If your SD card is like mine, the Cura software file is corrupt. I downloaded from the latest beta version from the parent, Ultimaker site, but this would not work due to a Microsoft dll being missing for Visual Studio. I could not get the dll since it is part of an upgrade and I need who knows how many other upgrades before this would work.

I went to the Slic3r site and downloaded Slic3r which I am now using. Works well. It does not show the estimated print time.

Slic3r site

I also downloaded IdeaMaker but I was not able to tweak the settings to get some prints to work.

I have found the slicer software settings make a BIG difference to the print, and to the time required to print. There will be some learning curve with any slicer software.

If you want to get estimated print time when using Slic3r, drag and drop the STL file into this site.

GCode site
 

Dave Paine

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#56
Some of my first prints in case this helps others.

I read about using blue masking tape on the glass to help the print stick to the bed while printing. This is a cheap roll of blue masking tape from a flea market.

This was an initial print with very few tweaks in the Slic3r software.

Handwheel_first_attempt_8566.jpg

It did stick, too well. I had a difficult time getting this off the bed. I later read I should have used some denatured alcohol to dissolve the adhesive under the tape.

I then switched to 3M brand blue painters tape. This has much better adhesive. Sticks to the glass for printing but easy to remove afterwards.

Second attempt on the left, first attempt on the right. Some of the cheap tape fused to the bottom.

The tan/orange marks on the left are from the 3M printing on the tape. I now wipe the tape to remove the print on the tape.

Handwheel_comparison_different_masking_tapes_8570.jpg

A toolholder for a dial indicator for my AXA QCTP. First attempt on the right. The bottom warped during printing.

After some reading I tweaked the slicing software. I now add a skirt to help hold the print to the bed. This also helps when the nozzle first begins a print. Often some stringy pieces. These are then in the skirt and not the print.

Toolholder_for_dial_indicator_comparison_8598.jpg

You may need to have the slicing software generate support material for the gear surfaces.

The filament tends to sag on horizontal runs. This happened in the dial indicator holder for the CR-10. I did not click on the generate support material option so the horizontal part which holds the indicator has some separation. Still works for my needs, but if I did this again I would include support material.

If I were making the change gears, I would not want the risk of the body of the gear not being solid.

DIal_indicator_holder_some_separation_on_back_8568.jpg
 

ttabbal

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#57
Running a printer is a bit of an art...

For the skirt/brim, some slicers have an option to offset it from the part, so you print an outline a few mm away from the part to prime the nozzle and such. Unless you need the extra adhesion to the bed, it is a nice option to use. Makes cleanup on the parts go a bit faster.

For most things, 20% infill is plenty. For gears and such, do 100%, but make sure your extrusion rate is calibrated properly or you get weird artifacts and off size prints.

Overhangs over about 45 degrees need support.

You need it to stick, but not too much.. Level the bed and adjust the starting height properly.

For most materials, a PEI sheet is a really good option. I bought mine from these guys. http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/3d-printing-materials/ultem-pei I went with a 20mil. If you need a size not listed, email them. They can make custom sizes. I like it far better than tape, hairspray, etc..

The settings in your slicer program are a bit of a rabbit hole. You can tinker almost endlessly with them to dial in settings. Don't go too nuts, unless you're making a lot of the same part.

I like this test part when setting up a new filament ... https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1023717 It prints fast, but tests a lot of little things. Then I use pliers and bend them to test inter-layer bonds. If it falls apart all along layer lines, increase print temp. Helps to make sure you get a good solid print. Even changing colors, this can make a difference.

Handy lathe print for AXA toolposts.. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1396510

Hope some of it helps. :)
 

strantor

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#58
Around 2013 I had the idea to print a gear for my leadscrew so that I could cut a specific metric thread. Worked out the math given my QC gearbox ratios in each position to find a position where I could get the pitch by making a single new gear of reasonable dimensions. I did not want to print a set of change gears; I just wanted to cut a single metric pitch, one time.

So I used sketchup with the involute gear plugin, punched in # of teeth, and boom. Done. Printed in Taulman Nylon645. It worked great, and I've actually used it several more times over the years and it's still holding up.

I would be cautious though, about printing an entire geartrain. Especially out of nylon, since it has some give. It might be enough give that the cumulative error (flex) of the gears would cause problems if threading.
 

FarmDad

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#59
Ran off a few things for the household by just opening them in cura and saving the file to the sd . Some things printed great , others just made a rats nest with no bed adhesion at all starting and then minimal a few circles of the head in . Bed is trammed and some files print nicely so I am sure it is something i am missing in cura . Its going to be a learning curve on this thing for sure .
 
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