VN Is this a good fit for my first mill?

I like to build a 4x4 pallet under a machine, bolt the machine to the pallet and use a pallet jack to move the machine. Hydraulic lowering trailers are the way to go because everything can be kept level. Pallet jacks are perfectly safe for moving a top-heavy mill that's bolted to a pallet as long as you stay on a level surface. You keep the jack as low as possible, with the pallet almost dragging the floor. If anything starts to go wonky, you just pull the release and set the load on the floor. If you keep the pallet low, the machine can't tip far enough to go over center, plus you've increase the footprint of the base significantly, so that a much larger tip angle is required to get the machine to tip. Go slow, don't let things start to rock.

A proper rigger's bar makes it pretty easy to lift the machine up enough to build a pallet underneath.

Lots of people are using VFDs with Van Norman mills. But remember that you'll need two VFDs: one for the spindle motor and one for the feed motor. The problem with VFDs is that they have a lot of high-voltage switching transients which may be more than old motor's insulation can handle. An AC line reactor will take out the transients and protect the motor: link

But if there are any more 3-phase tools in your future, a rotary phase converter is the way to go. You can buy a panel or panel kit from WNY Supply and pick up a used 3-phase motor locally; they usually go for about $10 per HP.

I am overwhelmed by the help you all are giving me. Thank you so much.

I know there are no stupid questions except those not asked. That said,I may not be the brightest bulb. It takes me a bit to catch on sometimes. So here are my next round of questions.

The 4x4 pallet you build, is that out of 4x4s or traditional pallet materials? I am assuming you make it 4' x 4' , a touch larger than a traditional pallet? Are you using lag bolts or bolting all the way through with carriage or other bolts? Any chance of a picture or a drawing? I know I'm getting a little extreme in my questions but I'm thinking I could pre-make the pallet prices to aid the process.

Regarding the electrical, I'm not sure if I will ever have another 3 phase machine, but then again, I didn't think I would ever get a full size mill either. So I'm thinking RPC is likely the right way to go. lol I'm getting ahead of myself, I still need to make room for the mill first. Thanks for all your help.


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I like to build a 4x4 pallet under a machine, bolt the machine to the pallet and use a pallet jack to move the machine. Hydraulic lowering trailers are the way to go because everything can be kept level. Pallet jacks are perfectly safe for moving a top-heavy mill that's bolted to a pallet as long as you stay on a level surface. You keep the jack as low as possible, with the pallet almost dragging the floor. If anything starts to go wonky, you just pull the release and set the load on the floor. If you keep the pallet low, the machine can't tip far enough to go over center, plus you've increase the footprint of the base significantly, so that a much larger tip angle is required to get the machine to tip. Go slow, don't let things start to rock.

A proper rigger's bar makes it pretty easy to lift the machine up enough to build a pallet underneath.

Lots of people are using VFDs with Van Norman mills. But remember that you'll need two VFDs: one for the spindle motor and one for the feed motor. The problem with VFDs is that they have a lot of high-voltage switching transients which may be more than old motor's insulation can handle. An AC line reactor will take out the transients and protect the motor: link

But if there are any more 3-phase tools in your future, a rotary phase converter is the way to go. You can buy a panel or panel kit from WNY Supply and pick up a used 3-phase motor locally; they usually go for about $10 per HP.

I am overwhelmed by the help you all are giving me. Thank you so much.

I know there are no stupid questions except those not asked. That said,I may not be the brightest bulb. It takes me a bit to catch on sometimes. So here are my next round of questions.

The 4x4 pallet you build, is that out of 4x4s or traditional pallet materials? I am assuming you make it 4' x 4' , a touch larger than a traditional pallet? Are you using lag bolts or bolting all the way through with carriage or other bolts? Any chance of a picture or a drawing? I know I'm getting a little extreme in my questions but I'm thinking I could pre-make the pallet prices to aid the process.

Regarding the electrical, I'm not sure if I will ever have another 3 phase machine, but then again, I didn't think I would ever get a full size mill either. So I'm thinking RPC is likely the right way to go. lol I'm getting ahead of myself, I still need to make room for the mill first. Thanks for all your help.


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Pallet pieces, not prices. Sorry autofill


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I've just used good but discarded pallets.
No reason to build new.
Yes, the pallet jack works well. If it fits the situation.

Daryl
MN
 
John,

I don't like commercial pallets because they're pretty light weight, especially the top surface. And there's no way to get one under a machine unless you have a crane to lift the machine. I build the pallets using three 4x4s for the base and 2-by stock for the deck. A standard pallet is 48x40" and that's a good size for a mill. Here's some photos that show how I do it. This is an Edlund drill press, but the procedure would be the same for a milling machine.

Here we used a rigger's bar to lift the machine up so that we could stack up 8x16 pavers to support it at the corners. This is a fairly light machine, so I didn't use 8x16" pieces of plywood on top of the pavers at each step. For a milling machine, you should always use a piece plywood on top of the pavers. (The concern is that the concentrated load of the machine might exceed the 2,000 pounds per square inch (ish) load limit of the concrete pavers and fracture them.) If the machine is very top heavy, then you would use more plywood pieces so that you are lifting one side of the machine only 3/4" or so at each step. Once you have three pieces of 3/4" plywood under each corner of the machine, you can replace two of the plywood pieces with a concrete paver (which is about 1-1/2" thick).
IMG17706.JPG

Once we had 3 pavers under each corner (about 4-1/2"), we were ready to change the support stack so that the pallet could be assembled. Three pavers and a piece of plywood give you a height of about 5-1/4"; you need 5" of clearance to slip the pallet pieces underneath.
IMG17709.JPG

Here the frame of the pallet has been built. 4x4s on the bottom, 2x4s on the ends, fastened to the 4x4s with long #10 deck screws.
IMG17738.JPG

Next the 2x6s go in. You can slide them underneath and mark the hole positions, pull them back out and drill the bolt holes. Assuming that a 5" long, 1/2" carriage bolt will be long enough to reach through the 2x6 and the machine's base with enough left over for a flat washer, lock washer and bolt, that's the way to go. The carriage bolts go in from the bottom. I like to counter-bore the hole so that the head of the bolt won't stick out below the 2x6; I don't want the machine to be supported on just the head of the carriage bolt when it's on the pallet jack. Once the bolts are in place, the 2x6 is fastened to the 4x4s with more deck screws.
IMG17740.JPG

If carriage bolts won't work, you can bolt from the top using machine bolts. Again, I counter-bore the holes so that the nuts won't stick out, for the same reason already mentioned. Rather than mark the hole locations, I carefully measure the center-to-center distance of holes, then layout and drill the holes from the back. I use Forstner bits to drill the counter-bore and then start the through hole, since it's easy to keep the two holes concentric with those bits. The problem with bolting from the top is that it's hard to know what length bolt you need so that the bolt won't stick through too far. You would think it would be easy to pre-measure the right length of bolt, but in practice, that hasn't worked for me. I come equipped with extra bolts that are longer and shorter than what I think I need.
 
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A toe jack (aka rigger's jack) is another way to lift a machine to get it up on supports. Commercial toe jacks are crazy expensive
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200056924_200056924

Here's a shop-made toe jack
https://www.everlastgenerators.com/forums/showthread.php/2728-4-Ton-Toe-Jack

Cal, can't thank you enough for your explanations and pictures. I'm sure there are countless ways to do this move but your sharing specifics on a system that works and you have used multiple times is extremely helpful. Now, I just have to find that chunky gas station Coffey to bribe Ugly Dog for his help and the move is almost done.


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A toe jack (aka rigger's jack) is another way to lift a machine to get it up on supports. Commercial toe jacks are crazy expensive
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200056924_200056924

Here's a shop-made toe jack
https://www.everlastgenerators.com/forums/showthread.php/2728-4-Ton-Toe-Jack

Cal, can't thank you enough for your explanations and pictures. I'm sure there are countless ways to do this move but your sharing specifics on a system that works and you have used multiple times is extremely helpful. Now, I just have to find that chunky gas station Coffey to bribe Ugly Dog for his help and the move is almost done.


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FYI. Tomorrow evening I will get a chance to see the mill and talk to the owner. Sounds like we would need to wait till the frost is out of the ground and the spring thaw dries up a bit before we could move the mill. I will know a great deal more soon.


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My favorite thread at the moment! Daryl was right to mention that forklifts can be a pricey rental (especially at the 5000 pound mark). They aren't too bad under 3000 pounds though. The real benefit is the ability to lift it by the ram from the side. This places the center of gravity below your lift point. It is the top heavy nature of these mills that everyone is addressing! Looking forward to pics & updates!
 
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