New shop! (was: Multiple buildings, ...)

[rabler]

I agree with you on your logic.
I have a problem with too much heat, just takes it out of me. If it were me, I would install some attic fans to move that heat out between the ceiling and roof. I have a couple of friends that have installed those Big Ass Fans in their shop. Expensive but they move some air and are reversible for summer or winter. One has his in his hanger in Idaho and swears that the small heater with the fan keeps the temps very comfortable and during the heat of the summer very cool on its' own.
Another advantage to wall (attic) fans is if you do a lot of burning or welding, helps to move that smoke out. I have two stints in my heart so wife has flat out told me that I will mover that smoke out of the shop when we get ours or no burning or welding. Nice to have someone take care of you.
But I bet that ceiling will be a huge benefit in lighting.

Have to agree with the benefits of having someone take care of you. Those are the gems in our lives.

I’m planning on eventually putting in bridge cranes so that limits ceiling fan options. I will probably put a ceiling fan in the office, I’m enclosing a 12x12’ area that will house my 3x4 surface plate, a computer desk, electronics bench, and maybe a small fridge.

I intend to insulate the crap out of this building, 6” walls full and at least R-19 initially for the ceiling. The roof already has 1” styrofoam under the metal, and 1/2” under the exterior walls as a start. Shop needs to be comfortable to work in and economical to keep that way. I will likely put a dual head mini-split in the shop, 24000 btu for the main shop and 9000 for the office. The mini splits can be set to a dehumidify mode, which is really helpful with reducing rust. I find that I can tolerate about 80 degrees in the summer and about 55 in the winter (assuming shop safe clothing). Additionally the shop is getting a wood stove, as requested by my wife, she loves a fire. I buried a gas line out there and will probably put in a 50,000 btu gas heater next winter too.

It will be a while before all of those climate accessories get installed. Used up the last of some money rolled over from selling previous house in Atlanta to put in the sub grade and contract the construction. Dipped into the cash budget for this month to pay for the ceiling.

If I can get all of the wiring work done by end of March that will be good progress. Then April to move equipment in and close up the walls.

 

[woodchucker]

if you can afford it, rockwool is a fantastic insulator. None of the problems like with foam. it's recycled metal slag. It's awesome at insulating against fire, it's so think that air doesn't blow through it (adding to more insulating).. rats and mice don't like it... My bathroom is so much warmer using it. And it doesn't slump down like fiberglass if it breaks loose. Oh, and water just beads off of it... so if you spring a leak, it does not get all heavy and moldy.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Have to agree with the benefits of having someone take care of you. Those are the gems in our lives.

I’m planning on eventually putting in bridge cranes so that limits ceiling fan options. I will probably put a ceiling fan in the office, I’m enclosing a 12x12’ area that will house my 3x4 surface plate, a computer desk, electronics bench, and maybe a small fridge.

I intend to insulate the crap out of this building, 6” walls full and at least R-19 initially for the ceiling. The roof already has 1” styrofoam under the metal, and 1/2” under the exterior walls as a start. Shop needs to be comfortable to work in and economical to keep that way. I will likely put a dual head mini-split in the shop, 24000 btu for the main shop and 9000 for the office. The mini splits can be set to a dehumidify mode, which is really helpful with reducing rust. I find that I can tolerate about 80 degrees in the summer and about 55 in the winter (assuming shop safe clothing). Additionally the shop is getting a wood stove, as requested by my wife, she loves a fire. I buried a gas line out there and will probably put in a 50,000 btu gas heater next winter too.

It will be a while before all of those climate accessories get installed. Used up the last of some money rolled over from selling previous house in Atlanta to put in the sub grade and contract the construction. Dipped into the cash budget for this month to pay for the ceiling.

If I can get all of the wiring work done by end of March that will be good progress. Then April to move equipment in and close up the walls.

Sounds like a good plan. For me, I start to melt about 75 and can wear a T shirt down to about 42, but my comfort range is 50-70.

One big advantage of insulating the ceiling in a metal building is to reduce the noise along with insulation. As for the BAF, they are really pretty interesting industrial design. But agree it is something that is better set for higher ceilings or open ceilings.

Your shop is going to be amazing. Although there is one room missing and that is the reloading room. But that can be overlooked for now. JK

 

[rabler]

if you can afford it, rockwool is a fantastic insulator. None of the problems like with foam. it's recycled metal slag. It's awesome at insulating against fire, it's so think that air doesn't blow through it (adding to more insulating).. rats and mice don't like it... My bathroom is so much warmer using it. And it doesn't slump down like fiberglass if it breaks loose. Oh, and water just beads off of it... so if you spring a leak, it does not get all heavy and moldy.

I'm probably going to blow in insulation rather than bats, just so much quicker and easier. Rockwool in general seems to be one of the things not readily available right now, supply chain/shortages? I would like to use blown-in rockwool for the lower foot or so of the walls for fire and mold control reasons. Then probably top that with cellulose in the rest of the walls and the attic for cost. I'll have spent out the last of the cash from selling the old house when I pay the building contractor, so I'm on a pay as you go budget from this point out.

I'm going to cover the lower three feet of walls in 26 ga metal too. Probably 3' metal, 4' melamine slatwall, and 4' drywall. I was surprised to find 3/4" slatwall cheaper than plywood.

 

[rabler]

Sounds like a good plan. For me, I start to melt about 75 and can wear a T shirt down to about 42, but my comfort range is 50-70.

One big advantage of insulating the ceiling in a metal building is to reduce the noise along with insulation. As for the BAF, they are really pretty interesting industrial design. But agree it is something that is better set for higher ceilings or open ceilings.

Your shop is going to be amazing. Although there is one room missing and that is the reloading room. But that can be overlooked for now. JK

Guns are staying up in the woodshop. I've done the 80% lowers and some misc gun projects, but never done my own reloading. Unless casting your own lead bullets for replica percussion cap muzzle loaders counts. Next on my gun todo list is to Form 1 build a silencer for my AR, from the very practical aspect of shooting coyotes after dusk and not annoying the neighbors. Haven't tried working with titanium yet ...

 

[Papa Charlie]

Guns are staying up in the woodshop. I've done the 80% lowers and some misc gun projects, but never done my own reloading. Unless casting your own lead bullets for replica percussion cap muzzle loaders counts. Next on my gun todo list is to Form 1 build a silencer for my AR, from the very practical aspect of shooting coyotes after dusk and not annoying the neighbors. Haven't tried working with titanium yet ...

Not into AR's, feel very uncomfortable to shoot. I got back into reloading when I started shooting a lot of pistol (1911). But it has expanded dramatically when I started shooting F-Class competition. When you get out to 500 yards and the goal is to place all 20 rounds from a relay into a 2.5" circle (total of 3 relays for a match), everything is taken to the extreme. Many of the people I shoot with, some are National Champions, way above my capabilities, shoot out to 1000 yards. Which only serves to raise the bar significantly. Having a dedicated reloading room to control every aspect is important and makes the process much easier. For example, lab grade scales don't like any kind of movement around them. Mine sits on a 3" thick slab of granite, no fluorescent lights (interference) and no air movement.
I actually enjoy the reloading as much as I do the shooting and the competition. To me the precision of the reloading is very relaxing. Most of my friends think that I am crazy, but this is not a secret.
It would also be great to have an area in the reloading room for cleaning, maintenance and rifle builds.
We will see, I could easily give up machine space for this, with the exception of those machines that support my hobby.
So when I see yours and others shops, this is where my head goes. Eventually I will have some type of shop and hopefully a better lathe to support it.
Thanks for putting up with my rambling.
Patrick

 

[rabler]

My temperature tolerance has shifted quite a bit. While I've moved from Georgia to Indiana in the last 4 years, I've become more tolerant of heat and less tolerant of cold. I suspect it has a lot to do with the ongoing post-cancer therapy.

But it has expanded dramatically when I started shooting F-Class competition.

I'm not great at accuracy of any sort, pistol or rifle. When I was a kid I did a lot of squirrel hunting with a .22, was pretty good at head shots with open sights (we ate a fair amount of squirrel). Now I'm happy to hit the target at 100 yards with a scope on a rifle. Favorite to shoot is a bolt action Mauser .270. My machining is probably much the same, I'm happy if I can get in the right ballpark, hitting tenths is not in my forte. I respect those with the patience and skill to achieve that level of accuracy, whether shooting, machining, or any other endeavors.

Thanks for putting up with my rambling.

I'm happy to ramble on about these sort of topics myself, so I appreciate the commentary.

 

[rabler]

Copper wiring prices have gone crazy. I’m a bit fanatical about outlets everywhere. There will be 24’ of workbench along the pictured wall, so I’m putting in quad outlets every 4’, along with a few 240V outlets. This does use up a lot of wire.
I did find I had a lot of 10/3 UF stored in various places, bought before copper prices went crazy. While UF is annoying to strip, I’m using it up in ways I normally wouldn’t to save some money on buying more rolls of wire. I also had a bunch of 14ga wire, and while 15A outlets are not suitable for shop use in my mind, I’m running using it up on lighting circuits. Three 3-way switches at opposite ends of the building takes a lot of wire.

 

[Papa Charlie]

The days of just running the same size wire for all 120 or 240 circuits is gone. Today, we need to size the wire for the load.
If you get to a point, you can always run some conduit and boxes to future locations and pull the wire later after you get other shop construction completed.

 

[rabler]

The days of just running the same size wire for all 120 or 240 circuits is gone. Today, we need to size the wire for the load.
If you get to a point, you can always run some conduit and boxes to future locations and pull the wire later after you get other shop construction completed.

I'm doing all of the three phase that way as TBD conduit. I'm designing capacity to upgrade my RPC from 20 to a two stage 30HP, mostly for load starting capacity, not for total load, allowing me to run a small-medium VMC if I want to go that route.

All of the bigger machines will go in one (larger) area so I'm only covering 1/3 of the shop with easy three phase access. I plan on having built in benches and other things in some areas that would make conduit annoying to work around. Another quarter of the shop has the 50A welding circuit. No matter what it is hard to predict exactly how everything will get laid out, but you have to start somewhere.

My general goal is to have dual 20A 120V and dual 240V 20A circuits readily available thorughout the shop, so that anything running on those can be arranged and plugged in pretty much anywhere, perhaps with a little intelligent load balancing across those two circuits. Realistically, it is a one man shop. Dedicated circuits for interior lighting, exterior lighting and outlets, office (computers), mini-split, gas furnace, air compressor. One main panel feeding two sub panels (for the single phase) so don't have to chase back too far for anything.