Newbie needs help with Logan 200 spindle runout

[Nogoingback]

The Logan 200 has two bearings in the headstock. The bearing on the chuck end is a double row bearing with preload built in. The other one is a normal single row bearing. Unlike many lathes, they cannot be adjusted. If the bearings are shot, they have to be replaced. The
original double row part was made by New Departure and is no longer available. Logan sells a replacement part which if I remember correctly costs about $200.00. Its my understanding that these bearings cannot be purchased over the counter from a bearing supply house and there is no cross reference to the original New Departure bearing.

Some folks have suceeded in cleaning out the old grease and repacking those bearings, but if it's worn out it will need to be replaced.

 

[Tozguy]

Roger that... wife is a nurse and we have one of n the house. Will try that. The spindle really does feel solid. I used full force back and forth and feel no slip or movement. However I’ll listen with a stethoscope. Thanks Again!

This tool is relatively inexpensive and very useful. You will hear things that you can not see or feel. May I suggest you get your own to hang in the shop. That way the hospital won't be infected with chips and your lathe won't catch the flu.
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-52500-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B0002SQYSM

 

[Kernbigo]

don't work on the chuck tell you get the spindle to run true, your wasting your time, you could put a brand new chuck on a spindle that runs out and have the same thing.

 

[Richard King 2]

The Logan 200 has two bearings in the headstock. The bearing on the chuck end is a double row bearing with preload built in. The other one is a normal single row bearing. Unlike many lathes, they cannot be adjusted. If the bearings are shot, they have to be replaced. The
original double row part was made by New Departure and is no longer available. Logan sells a replacement part which if I remember correctly costs about $200.00. Its my understanding that these bearings cannot be purchased over the counter from a bearing supply house and there is no cross reference to the original New Departure bearing.

Some folks have suceeded in cleaning out the old grease and repacking those bearings, but if it's worn out it will need to be replaced.

After reading your great info I went back and looked at the Logan manual and they do say the spindle bearings are special pre-loaded. Onething for discussion though this spindle was removed by the former owner and we need to wonder if the other guy bought the bearings from Logan or off the shelf. Nogoing, do you know if Logan used some sort of engraved mark on the bearings? I have seen this in Hardinges where they mark the bearings by adding a hand engraved letter/number after the factory number usually it has a dash -- then athe engraved number.

Another thing if the other guy did not tighten the adjusting nut holding the front bearing tight to the spindle or the front bearing retainer cover he put way to much silicon gasket material..the outer race could be loose.

Bottom line is it could be as simple as lousy install of the new bearings.. Another thing Nogoing do you know if the factory bearings have a TIR * (total indicator run-out) mark on them and is the spindle marked with a - 0 - signifying spindle max TIR .

You sound as if you have replaced those bearings before and know your "stuff" thanks for your help. Rich

 

[SuperTroye]

don't work on the chuck tell you get the spindle to run true, your wasting your time, you could put a brand new chuck on a spindle that runs out and have the same thing.

Understood... waiting for dial test indicator to arrive. Then I will get any runout sorted out.

 

[Richard King 2]

Understood... waiting for dial test indicator to arrive. Then I will get any runout sorted out.

I would not turn on the spindle when measuring the taper. You could wear a flat spot on the stem. In grinding shops that do that they use a small piece of nylon attached to the stem. I have a picture of that someplace. Just need to figure out how to download them on here again.

 

[SuperTroye]

After reading your great info I went back and looked at the Logan manual and they do say the spindle bearings are special pre-loaded. Onething for discussion though this spindle was removed by the former owner and we need to wonder if the other guy bought the bearings from Logan or off the shelf. Nogoing, do you know if Logan used some sort of engraved mark on the bearings? I have seen this in Hardinges where they mark the bearings by adding a hand engraved letter/number after the factory number usually it has a dash -- then athe engraved number.

Another thing if the other guy did not tighten the adjusting nut holding the front bearing tight to the spindle or the front bearing retainer cover he put way to much silicon gasket material..the outer race could be loose.

Bottom line is it could be as simple as lousy install of the new bearings.. Another thing Nogoing do you know if the factory bearings have a TIR * (total indicator run-out) mark on them and is the spindle marked with a - 0 - signifying spindle max TIR .

You sound as if you have replaced those bearings before and know your "stuff" thanks for your help. Rich

Here is a video of the bearing. It looks like the original to me? So, I don't know if he changed the back one? Anyways, if any of the Logan gurus recognize this bearing and can confirm it is the original that would be awesome.

 

[Richard King 2]

I highly doubt Logan painted the surface under the retaining ring and it would rest on metal to metal Read through that section in the Logan book where they talk about removing the the bearings. Also the bearing in the manual doesn't have a retaining ring and the one in the book has grease cover rings. Does your manual show the snap ring?

You have the front cover that covers up that bearing right? Part # 194 on spindle drawing .http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/3353.pdf

that paint on the headstock on machines is not normal. How about taking a video of the complete headstock, far right and top with cover open. direct camera so we can see where the bearing are.

 

[Nogoingback]

After reading your great info I went back and looked at the Logan manual and they do say the spindle bearings are special pre-loaded. Onething for discussion though this spindle was removed by the former owner and we need to wonder if the other guy bought the bearings from Logan or off the shelf. Nogoing, do you know if Logan used some sort of engraved mark on the bearings? I have seen this in Hardinges where they mark the bearings by adding a hand engraved letter/number after the factory number usually it has a dash -- then athe engraved number.

Another thing if the other guy did not tighten the adjusting nut holding the front bearing tight to the spindle or the front bearing retainer cover he put way to much silicon gasket material..the outer race could be loose.

Bottom line is it could be as simple as lousy install of the new bearings.. Another thing Nogoing do you know if the factory bearings have a TIR * (total indicator run-out) mark on them and is the spindle marked with a - 0 - signifying spindle max TIR .

You sound as if you have replaced those bearings before and know your "stuff" thanks for your help. Rich

Richard, I'm not aware that the Logan bearings were graded or marked for TIR. When I replaced mine, the part I removed
was an original New Departure bearing and it wasn't marked other than the part number. If the bearing was replaced with a similar over the counter bearing i suppose that would explain the runout, but of course the only way to find out is to pull the spindle and see how it's marked.

If the bearing isn't secured to the spindle, I would think that would be indicated by longitudinal movement in the spindle, not runout in the bearing. The snap ring in the bearing is held in place by the outer cover which is secured to the headstock with three screws.

It seems to me that if the double row bearing is an original New Departure part it could simply be worn out. Logan 200's
were built in the 1940's, so depending on the s/n, that bearing could be 75 years old. In any case, removing the spindle is the only way to find out.

 

[Nogoingback]

I highly doubt Logan painted the surface under the retaining ring and it would rest on metal to metal Read through that section in the Logan book where they talk about removing the the bearings. Also the bearing in the manual doesn't have a retaining ring and the one in the book has grease cover rings. Does your manual show the snap ring?

You have the front cover that covers up that bearing right? Part # 194 on spindle drawing .http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2093/3353.pdf

that paint on the headstock on machines is not normal. How about taking a video of the complete headstock, far right and top with cover open. direct camera so we can see where the bearing are.

The snap ring is normal for the Model 200. I seem to remember that later lathes had a different arrangement. Mine was built in 1944 and it has one.

My original bearing had a grease seal on one side only. The new, Logan supplied replacement had grease seals on both sides.