Projects? Tool improvements or real projects?

[SouthernChap]

I think the "To me" at the start of your post is probably the most important bit of your post.

Before buying any machine, I research what is available in the new and used markets.

That's a fair point. Good quality, in decent condition, old iron is definitely likely to be a better buy than new Chinese manufacturered machines.

However, the availability of those good, old iron machines varies quite a lot by region and especially by country. I know there are places in the US where finding the normally ubiquitous Southbend 9 is difficult; when you live on an island that, in the past 50 years, has pretty much abandoned its engineering heritage and decided that cutting itself off from Europe is a good idea, a ready supply of good condition, well manufacturered machine tools is a thing fondly remembered, rather than experienced now.

Picking up a tidy Colchester, Boxford or Myford with a decent chunk of tooling for a keen price is now uncommon to rare, and when they do cone up, you have to be pretty quick on your pins to be the one to buy.

Also, the other problem with "buy used" is that as a beginner, assessing the state of for example, a used Colchester or Boxford is something you won't be well qualified to do. Beginners are likely to not have a more experienced machinist that they can take with them when viewing to help them asses whether they're getting a good deal or in actuality paying for the privilege of a trip to the recycling centre!

In the States, you might have trustworthy used equipment dealers that the beginner can go to and be pretty confident that, having informed said dealer that they're wet behind the ears and begged the dealer to have mercy on them, the dealer will not sell them a pig in a poke.

It's possible that there might be an example or two of such honourable dealers in the UK but given my experience with a few, you have to watch them like a hawk. My drill press came from a dealer not far from where I work, great guys, good for a laugh and a chat and very knowledgeable and they have a mountain of machines, tooling and stock, but I take what they say with a decent handful of salt; Eh, I'll still pop along have a wander round, a chat and buy stuff from them but I've learned to be on my guard plus they're a bit overpriced for lathes and mills.

Buying a lathe from one of the reputable importers of Chinese machinery (Warco or ArcEuroTrade, for example) does at least provide you with some backup and whilst you will be having to do a fair bit of work on the machine to get it to a decent level of usability, you'll learn a lot on the way.

All the above said, I personally made the mistake of looking at the 'for sale' prices of the old iron on eBay and not checking the Sold listings for what the models actually recently went for (I didn't look on on FBM either, having a loathing for Facebook in general and so not having an account). I do wish I'd been a bit more savvy and seen that I was able to afford something like a Boxford AUD.

Again, however, I wouldn't have known a well running example from a hole in the ground.

I'd stand a much better chance now (and I've recently discovered a colleague at work has a father who is a hobby machinist and they've agreed to come with me on any viewing, when the time comes) but only because I've learned a lot from improving the Chinese 7x

Case and point are the HF horizontal bandsaws. Almost everyone here who has one has had to make "improvements".

Isn't a big reason for these horizontal bandsaws being so popular that they work well enough and they fit in to the limited space that many hobby machinists have?

There are currently several used 11" x 7" Johnson, Wells, Wilton, and Dayton saws available on Facebook and Craigslist for the same or less money. Granted they will need to be inspected to be sure they haven't been abused, but being industrial quality I'm sure they can do quite a bit of hard work, and still have plenty of life left in them.

I refer the honourable member to my previous point about regional and global variations in the accessibility of good used machine tools and the ability of a beginner to 'inspect' used tools.

 

[ggbutcher]

I'm in a tool-making spin right now. Building an airbrush booth because I needed it to fit a particular space and use my 3D printer cabinet's exhaust system. I built the 3D printer cabinet, also to fit a particular space.

Machining-wise, just got a portable bandsaw, going to make the vise-clamped table for it because I'm too cheap to buy one. Also going to make a slot-adjustable finger clamp to hold down thin material during milling.

Been doing this long before I took up machining - making tools and fixtures to assist various projects...

 

[pontiac428]

I just like to make my own stuff, by my own resources, on my own timeline. Now I farm out very little, and when I do, it's specialty work that I can't do myself.

It really comes down to what Rage said in Down Rodeo:

A thousand years they had tha tools- we should be takin’ ’em
F--- tha G-ride, I want the machines that are makin’ em

 

[C-Bag]

Same here but for 48 yrs . Most time in prototype working with engineers. Engineers are great but don't understand the concept of how to build things efficiently . They didn't have the machining expertise back in the days . We made things our way in the shop and they made revisions according to our input . Saved the company mucho dinero this way . We were treated like gold in our little top secret shop until our old German leader retired . We were then thrown out into production after the other bosses tore the walls down . There was a lot of jelously from these bosses in production as we didn't use their services and they could not enter our area . Think of it as a skunkworks area .

We got hired to do a fruit sizer install that was supposed to take 6wks and did in 4wks and they just kept coming up with huge projects. Ended up deciding to move on even though there was more to do after 2yrs. We constantly had managers touring our projects and by the looks on their faces they had no clue. Between my direct boss( who had also started with the co as a contract fabricator) and the “old man” they were the only ones who KNEW what we were doing. Anytime they got wind we were being messed with the wrath of the gods would come down on them and they’d have to undo their neckties to pee. I referred to us as Dark Ops and the boss started referring to us as that and everyone knew who he was talking about. It was great to have autonomy to have them tell us what they want and let us do our job.

 

[PNW_Guy]

Not that it's a bad thing but seems like all the projects I see are things to improve the use of our machines. Are people actually making innovational inventions requiring lathes and mills?

I'm rural, and deal with a lot of things that require maintenance. I can go to work in order to pay somebody to fix things, or I can learn skills and buy tools. In short, I can trade "more time working" for "less time at work". And I get a bunch pf tools in the process.

Because I buy used tools for 10 cents on the dollar they tend to need a bit of work when I buy them. I literally own $100k of stationary power tools and metrology equipment and I paid somewhere near $10k for it. I have a spreadsheet for insurance reasons.

This way of living makes me very happy.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I'm rural, and deal with a lot of things that require maintenance. I can go to work in order to pay somebody to fix things, or I can learn skills and buy tools. In short, I can trade "more time working" for "less time at work". And I get a bunch pf tools in the process.

Because I buy used tools for 10 cents on the dollar they tend to need a bit of work when I buy them. I literally own $100k of stationary power tools and metrology equipment and I paid somewhere near $10k for it. I have a spreadsheet for insurance reasons.

This way of living makes me very happy.

Im just cheap.


When we first moved to this property 20yrs ago we needed a riding mower as the lawn portion of the property is 1.5 acres. I started looking at what a decent mower would cost and it was out of reach as we had several major repairs that needed done to the house. Got the house for a steal, but it needed a new roof, central air, windows, etc.


I found a well used Kubota G4200 for $300, and used my skills to rehab it for another $300. Rebuilt the entire deck, new blades, oil and filters. Just replacement parts from the dealer would have cost $1500.

I rehabbed all the old parts, new bearings and seals and I had a raggedy but well running diesel mower for 1/10th the cost of buying new.

That summer I bought the components to make a leaf collection system for roughly $150. That system worked so well my wife peed herself when I fired it up for the first time and used it.

These two items served me well for 8yrs until I sold them for roughly what I had into them to begin with.

Roughly $9K in needed equipment I made magically appear for $750, and I do this sort of thing often for both shop machines or in making a better version of a commercially available item for less than what it cost to buy it new.

Now if I could just learn to do one project at a time....



.

 

[SouthernChap]

Machining-wise, just got a portable bandsaw, going to make the vise-clamped table for it because I'm too cheap to buy one.

I couldn’t find vise clamped table to buy, either here in the UK or in the US.

Which is why I got the lazy, only-does-a-good-job-for-people-spending-serious-money arsehole welder to make one for me, which I now have to bodge into flatness.

When I've had enough practice with my very cheap and little (but apparently very usable up to 6mm steel) Lidl Parkside welder, I'll make another one that's got an actually flat table!

 

[ChazzC]

I couldn’t find vise clamped table to buy, either here in the UK or in the US.

Which is why I got the lazy, only-does-a-good-job-for-people-spending-serious-money arsehole welder to make one for me, which I now have to bodge into flatness.

When I've had enough practice with my very cheap and little (but apparently very usable up to 6mm steel) Lidl Parkside welder, I'll make another one that's got an actually flat table!

SWAG Off Road has them (granted, not inexpensive):



May be available from Amazon

 

[Aaron_W]

On the import vs old Iron tangeant, not only is location an issue, but also size being considered.

I have a personal bias towards old machines but imports often do have some advantages besides being available to order vs a hunt.

For a large lathe 14"+ I have no doubt the old iron is often superior, but at the smaller sizes there are often tradeoffs. When size is important the imports are often significantly smaller than a comparible vintage machine.

The ubiquitous import 4x6 band saw is popular because there isn't a lot available in that size class. The old USA (Craftsman) has its own issues so isn't really an improvement over the HF, Grizzly, Jet.

The little Excel / Atlas / Craftsman 4x4 hacksaws are neat, and even more compact than the 4x6, but I couldn't say these hacksaws are really "better". Some of the medium size 6x6-ish hacksaws could certainly give the 4x6 bandsaws a good run though.

I found a 50 year old Kalamazoo 6x10" bandsaw which is far superior to my HF 4x6 but also about twice the size. The 4x6 does the job I bought it to do, I have no complaints.

Anyway lots of variables to the endless debate of old vs new.

 

[Ultradog MN]

There are different philosophies about buying tools and I'm learning not to disparage those who don't think as I do.
I don't buy tools spur of the moment.
Type in my credit card and click buy it now.
I'm willing to make do and go without.
I'm willing to wait, save, search and hopefully find what I want some day.
I ran one of these in the late 1970s - working my way through college.
I have wanted one ever since.
I finally found one that I could afford 3 years ago.
I paid a lot for it.
It is a low houred machine. 10x18".
It cuts straight and true. It has coolant.
It is quiet.
I get none of the frustration one gets with a cheap saw that is flimsy and noisy and needs frequent tweaking.
It is a good tool and will hold its value.
It was USA made.
It will outlast me for sure. But it's mine for now and I get a sense of pride every time I use it.