Shop Heat

ddickey

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Wondering if there is anyone here with experience using on of these for an infloor heat source. https://www.amazon.com/EcoSmart-ECO-11-Modulating-Technology/dp/B001LZRF9M/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3J9PUKWAXI0BN&dchild=1&keywords=tankless+water+heater+electric&qid=1602668695&refinements=p_89:EcoSmart&rnid=2528832011&sprefix=tankless+,aps,292&sr=8-1It would mean running 250 kcmil (for 200amp) to the shop subpanel. Would initially save ~ $1000 in cost over one of these. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Takagi-T-H...-0-90-UEF-Gas-Tankless-Water-Hea/372562164523
Opinions are appreciated.
 
With that heavy wiring i bet costs are about the saem. Right now gas is far cheaper than electric.
 
I have no experience with tank less water heaters. We have a wood/oil combination boiler.
Will these regulate the water temperature to a low enough temp to walk on. Otherwise a mixing valve will be needed.
It takes a lot of BTU,s to maintain heat in water. The water heat would need to be on consistently. Imagine trying to keep 40 gallons of water, warm on your stove 7 days a week thru the winter. Once its up to temperature it is a lot easier to maintain but not cheap to run.
Not trying to discourage you. Its a great heat and the shop will always be warm. But .......
Cheers
Martin
 
I have seen this done with a conventional water heater. He installed a 40 gallon tank with a circulating pump that was controlled with a thermostat. It worked great in OHIO winters. The floor was always warm. I can't remember if it was gas or electric.
 
Every floor in my house is heated with electric floor heat as a supplement to our heat pump (Natural gas is not available in our neighborhood). I have used 2 different electric floor heat technologies depending on the type of floor.


Electric cable heat:
Over 10 years ago during my kitchen renovation I added this electric cable heat system to my kitchen floor.
1) Snaked the cable over my plywood subfloor and attached it with cable staples.
2) Covered the cables with a mortar compatible fiberglass mesh.
3) Thoroughly covered the plywood subfloor, cable and fiberglass mesh with a mortar bonding agent.
4) Poured a modified self leveling compound strengthened with a latex add mix over the plywood, cable and mesh.
5) Installed a tile floor on top of the self leveling base.
This has worked perfectly and has given me NO problems in the past 10 years. We love the heated tile floor in the middle of the cold winters! Recently I had to remove a single tile for a project and the self leveling compound took an exorbitant amount of work to hammer and chisel through! I have read that an uncoupling membrane or cement board is needed to successfully install tile over a plywood subfloor... I disagree. I have installed this same system in 3 bathrooms and our slate tiled entry way over the years with equally excellent results.

You can buy this same cable already attached to the fiberglass matt from HomeDepot or Lowes for over 5x the price of ordering off of ebay. (Amazon didn't carry such things when I installed my kitchen tile floor).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-T...621939?hash=item3650c99433:g:GlAAAOSwsJRdJYN6
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Carbon film:
I have also used this carbon film under engineered wood flooring with excellent results. This system calls for using crimp clips to make the electrical contact with the copper contact stripes. Don't do that! Remove the thin layer of plastic covering the coper contact strip and solder the wire directly to the copper strip. It is very easy and makes a much thinner connection than the clip plus will be MUCH more secure and much less likely to have issues in the future. I have this system in 4 bedrooms and our great/living room. We are VERY pleased with this! The markup on this carbon film heat mat is even bigger than the cable heat above at the local home centers. (Yes, I ordered min from China and it is VERY well made!)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-War...654694?hash=item53f7bd28e6:g:P8cAAOSw~y9ZBevu
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I know the original question was about hot water radiant floor heat but you might consider using the electric cable heat as an alternative. I think the install would be much easier, the floor would maintain a more uniform temperature over the entire floor and the heat time would be considerably faster than the hot water systems I have lived with in the past. All of my research said that the electric cable heat is just as if not more reliable than hot water floor heat. The identical cable is often used in concrete walkways to eliminate the need for snow removal with an excellent track record of reliability! I wish I could figure out a way to put this cable heat over the eves under my soon to be installed roof so I don't have to pull snow off the roof to prevent ice dams!

If you do have natural gas available at your house I would choose a hot water floor heating system and a gas water heater over an electric floor heating system!
 
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Floor heat is nice but having built a shop in Northern Michigan, and having radiant floor heat in part of our home I think I'd skip it for a shop.

The gas tube heaters are super efficient and can be left turned off and unattended without any problem. And, if it breaks its easy to replace.

https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...strt/p-1444441193133-c-6861.htm?tid=-1&ipos=6

I had one in my 2400 sqft shop and it would heat it up from way below freezing to warm enough to take the Carhart off in about half an hour. It's an infrared system so your tools, projects and everything warms up nice.

JMHO,

John
(who BTW doesn't have that shop anymore and is looking forward to never moving snow again) ;)
 
...
I wish I could figure out a way to put this cable heat over the eves under my soon to be installed roof so I don't have to pull snow off the roof to prevent ice dams!

They make an electric cable just for this. It goes under the shingles. SOP up here in MN. here's one product from a quick google search
 
Here in Downunder electricity is way too expensive for heating. Our whole house including garage, under main roof, is heated with underfloor heating.AKA water in pipes. We have 4 different ways to heat the water.

A 400 Ltr tank is connected via thermal circulation to a wood burning slow combustion heater, with a saddle water tank, this is used throughout winter. It is supplemented with solar hot water panels, we get a lot of cold but sunny days in winter. An instantaneous gas )natural) is also connected for spring and autumn when it's not really cold enough to light up the wood burner, but we just want to keep the concrete slab warm.

The gas system works quite well and will in fact run the system on its own in winter, very handy if we run out of firewood, it is sometimes hard to get.

We also have an electric element in the tank this only runs on an off peak circuit (about half price) so makes it comparable to using gas. It is handy as it runs during the small hours (2300 to 0700) of the morning so it avoids having to get up and stoke up the fire at 0400.

The whole system works very well and I love it that the shop is never really cold, unless I leave the big roller doors open and the wind whistles through. It also means that I never have condensation on my machines or tools. This system also provides all the house hot water needs.
 
If in a basement or connected garage and you have a hydronic (forced hot water) system you could have a zone added for a "Modine" or similar unit heater:


I have done it for both and it works to take the chill off. You will not however get a warm floor. The space where the heater sits cannot get below freezing; you may need to run it enough to ensure that.
 
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