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Stick or Post Frame Shop
- Thread starter ddickey
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
- Messages
- 6,560
I got bids on both, and went with the pole frame in the end. The pole building I got finished out at $120k, which is not far from the rough-finish stick-built bid for $150k for the same space. I found that the pole frame was a good canvas to work with, and the builder was top-notch. The building is solid, on big timbers and full-span joists on the second floor. I was far better off with the pole setting on my property layout than I would have been for a traditional poured foundation (building went in built nearly on top of my property lines), and the foundation would have blown the costs skyward in my case. I don't see any major difference in what it would take to plumb, wire, and insulate either building style. Metal buildings and metal roofs last longer than traditional materials.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2017
- Messages
- 2,138
As a "NON-professional", old school, essentially self taught "builder", I personally prefer post and beam construction over stud wall construction. Much of my construction is concerned with cost of materials, time (labor) is usually not a concern. Balloon construction is fine for a dwelling house, but the floor joists don't have the capacity of a stud wall. A wood floor, as a non-sparking surface, would last well over 100 years if properly installed. Concrete is the usual approach for floors these days.
If concrete blocks or brick are to be used for the lower parts of the walls, a footer is cast as part of the floor as a "monolithic" slab. If the walls are to be wood, posts may be planted ahead of the floor being poured for bearing the weight. Again, if posts are to be set on top of the concrete, a footer should be included in pouring the floor. The footer must go below the frost line.
There "were" many sources of knowledge for such post and beam construction, pre-internet. Many of those books are now out of print because of the internet. I can't say what is or is not available now. My father dates from before WW1, being a grown man during WW2 and near 50 when I came along. Much of my knowledge came from him, as did the mindset to be conservative with materials.
Stud wall construction reached its' peak following WW2, with today's techniques being a matter of "fine tuning" existing methods. Post and beam has fallen by the wayside because it is so labor intensive. For shop construction, balloon construction is not considered. A modern approach to post and beam construction is the metal "barns", available on "Craig's List" under Farming supplies. Interior finishing is not included, but should be considered before committing. The metal "shops" are not conductive to ease of insulation or finish. But the price is quite reasonable.
A "caveat" to be considered is that I am located in the "deep south". Insulation and snow loading is a much lesser concern here than "up north". In this area, the roof only needs enough pitch to shed water. In the deep north, a sharper roof pitch and possibly heated roof are a major concern. As expressing an opinion, I should only be considered as stirring up the mindset. if you are looking for a "turn-key" building, look to local builders for climate awareness.
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If concrete blocks or brick are to be used for the lower parts of the walls, a footer is cast as part of the floor as a "monolithic" slab. If the walls are to be wood, posts may be planted ahead of the floor being poured for bearing the weight. Again, if posts are to be set on top of the concrete, a footer should be included in pouring the floor. The footer must go below the frost line.
There "were" many sources of knowledge for such post and beam construction, pre-internet. Many of those books are now out of print because of the internet. I can't say what is or is not available now. My father dates from before WW1, being a grown man during WW2 and near 50 when I came along. Much of my knowledge came from him, as did the mindset to be conservative with materials.
Stud wall construction reached its' peak following WW2, with today's techniques being a matter of "fine tuning" existing methods. Post and beam has fallen by the wayside because it is so labor intensive. For shop construction, balloon construction is not considered. A modern approach to post and beam construction is the metal "barns", available on "Craig's List" under Farming supplies. Interior finishing is not included, but should be considered before committing. The metal "shops" are not conductive to ease of insulation or finish. But the price is quite reasonable.
A "caveat" to be considered is that I am located in the "deep south". Insulation and snow loading is a much lesser concern here than "up north". In this area, the roof only needs enough pitch to shed water. In the deep north, a sharper roof pitch and possibly heated roof are a major concern. As expressing an opinion, I should only be considered as stirring up the mindset. if you are looking for a "turn-key" building, look to local builders for climate awareness.
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- Joined
- Oct 16, 2019
- Messages
- 6,585
I got a quote today for just the building, no concrete, insulation, interior, electrical or site prep for $26K.
I'd be willing to do a lot more of the building like insulation and electrical as well as in floor heat but builder who is building my house won't allow the project to start until after the closing. They break ground on Monday for the house. No idea how long that will take. I have no interest taking on those tasks in cold weather.
I'd be willing to do a lot more of the building like insulation and electrical as well as in floor heat but builder who is building my house won't allow the project to start until after the closing. They break ground on Monday for the house. No idea how long that will take. I have no interest taking on those tasks in cold weather.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2019
- Messages
- 6,554
I built a 40' x 60' commercial pole barn in Michigan back in 2012/13 would definitely go that route again for a shop. Best bang for the buck by far, I think we had about $85k into it with insulation, heat and a bathroom.
Check this thread out for some more ideas.
www.hobby-machinist.com
John
Check this thread out for some more ideas.
Getting started: Shop questions
Hi, I've been wanting to build a shop for several years now. I'm finally almost in a place where I can do it. I don't have a lot of experience - I worked with a CNC Mill and a manual lathe when I was an undergrad engineering student, and that's about it. I am approaching this as a hobby. I...
www.hobby-machinist.com
John
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2014
- Messages
- 2,609
My shop is in a 40' x 96' barn, conventional post/perlin/truss construction with a 5" reinforced concrete floor after the fact. The barn started life as a 40' x 56' with 10' side walls, shingled roof. Added on a 40' x 40' x 12' addition with a steel roof 10 years ago (dirt floor). The original barn cost about $13K. Paid $1.80 per sq. ft. for the 5" reinforced concrete so under $20K for the shell (in 1992). I re-roofed the original 40' x 56' with steel 7 years ago for $3500.
To finish out the shop, I put in stud walls on 2' center with sole and top plates between the poles which are on 8' centers. Also nailed studs flat to the 4"x 6" poles so that surface was flush with the header above. I'd have to do the math, but the perimeter is around (40 + 40 + 32 + 32) 144'. So double that in 8' 2x4's for the sole/top plates plus around 70 10' studs for the walls. The inside walls are covered with 7/16" roofing OSB. I mistakenly air nailed them down; now wish like heck I'd have screwed them down for access. Used around 50 sheets of OSB at around $8 a sheet back in the day. Ceiling is white pole barn steel which ran $25 per 16' run. Used 26 sheets there.
Only problem I can recall having is getting occasional water leaks from the outside under the walls in the spring. The outside perimeter base is 2 tongue/groove pressure treated 2x6" nailed to the beams, then steel siding nailed to that and the horizontal perlins running up the poles. Being a newbie at the time, I didn't spec out a rodent guard piece of trim at the bottom of the steel to seal off the "outies" on the steel panels. Snow will build up on the outside of the building and when it melts, could get through the openings at the "outsies", up the 2 x 6 skirt boards and through the wall. I've since caulked every "outie" and installed a rodent-guard piece of trim.
I guess if you went stick/frame, you'd have your inside walls ready to go without the added framing I used. If you poured a slab first, probably go with an 8" rise of cement around the base to keep the sole plates above grade?
I guess in summary, walking into my shop no one would really notice if it's stick/frame or pole construction. With stick frame you'd probably use convention vinyl siding to match your house if that's important. Thousands of shops in garages that are stick/frame, thousands in pole buildings also. I haven't noticed any heaving of the slab in my shop after 28 years which could be an issue as it would push the side walls into the ceiling.
Bruce
To finish out the shop, I put in stud walls on 2' center with sole and top plates between the poles which are on 8' centers. Also nailed studs flat to the 4"x 6" poles so that surface was flush with the header above. I'd have to do the math, but the perimeter is around (40 + 40 + 32 + 32) 144'. So double that in 8' 2x4's for the sole/top plates plus around 70 10' studs for the walls. The inside walls are covered with 7/16" roofing OSB. I mistakenly air nailed them down; now wish like heck I'd have screwed them down for access. Used around 50 sheets of OSB at around $8 a sheet back in the day. Ceiling is white pole barn steel which ran $25 per 16' run. Used 26 sheets there.
Only problem I can recall having is getting occasional water leaks from the outside under the walls in the spring. The outside perimeter base is 2 tongue/groove pressure treated 2x6" nailed to the beams, then steel siding nailed to that and the horizontal perlins running up the poles. Being a newbie at the time, I didn't spec out a rodent guard piece of trim at the bottom of the steel to seal off the "outies" on the steel panels. Snow will build up on the outside of the building and when it melts, could get through the openings at the "outsies", up the 2 x 6 skirt boards and through the wall. I've since caulked every "outie" and installed a rodent-guard piece of trim.
I guess if you went stick/frame, you'd have your inside walls ready to go without the added framing I used. If you poured a slab first, probably go with an 8" rise of cement around the base to keep the sole plates above grade?
I guess in summary, walking into my shop no one would really notice if it's stick/frame or pole construction. With stick frame you'd probably use convention vinyl siding to match your house if that's important. Thousands of shops in garages that are stick/frame, thousands in pole buildings also. I haven't noticed any heaving of the slab in my shop after 28 years which could be an issue as it would push the side walls into the ceiling.
Bruce