Time is running out (California folk)

[woodchucker]

They said the same about wind mill blade and those are turning into a hazard now.

yes and no. They have begun using them as pilings. So there is a secondary use for those that are in good shape.
So some are being recycled, others are land fill.

 

[skogkatt007]

I'm sorry, but that dialogue is the definition of uninformed. There has been no greater rate of warming of the Earth than it has been in the last 100 years, which, of course, coincides with the Industrial Revolution. Every single scientist who has legitimacy in their field will concur with this. It is NOT made up horse hocky, as you suggest. It is real.

Even if one does not believe in the science and the evidence, would you rather make a change to better our only Earth, only to find out it was not needed, or would you rather do nothing and continue the status quo only to find out the science was right and we have reached an unrecoverable spiral. I know I would rather do good even though it was not necessary.

The earth has had ice ages.

The earth has had very warm periods.

Those points are not open to debate. Entirely apart from anything man could have done (if he was even around), there have been drastic changes in the planet's climate.

Some people just want to talk about the last 200 years or so.

In the 1800s some volcano erupted and parts of the US had vast amounts of ash in the atmosphere. There were blizzards in June. But the effects of the event were not experienced for very long.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

 

[Shotgun]

Even if one does not believe in the science and the evidence, would you rather make a change to better our only Earth, only to find out it was not needed, or would you rather do nothing and continue the status quo only to find out the science was right and we have reached an unrecoverable spiral. I know I would rather do good even though it was not necessary.

Depends on the cost of the change, and the effects of the faster rate of change. Even if your assertion that we're warming faster than when there were no records is true, we're still not warming faster than what it has already warmed since the sun came up this morning. And returning ourselves to the stone-age standard of living because someone that has been repeatedly proven wrong has made a prediction that we'll return to a stone-age standard of living doesn't seem a good trade-off to me.

 

[skogkatt007]

Two more points...

Read Bill Brysons book "A Short History of Nearly Everything"

Also, the excuse that the other people are not cleaning up the world so we shouldn't either is akin to "I'm not going to clean up my year because my neighbor's is a mess."

No that is a huge logical flaw. China, and India are not our neighbors. We're supposed to believe what they do changes the planet's climate though. Although the effects are not readily apparent to us. What my neighbor does, leaves blowing into my yardbor whatever, can directly affect me.

It may seem like a silly point to make. It's just that there's so little critical thought is embedded in tbese arguments oftentimes. I actually can control to some extent what goes on next door (call the township, the police if something really dangerous is goung on). We have little or no direct control over what nations on the other side of the globe do.

Work on getting them to comply.

 

[jbaccell]

I'm sorry, but that dialogue is the definition of uninformed. There has been no greater rate of warming of the Earth than it has been in the last 100 years, which, of course, coincides with the Industrial Revolution. Every single scientist who has legitimacy in their field will concur with this. It is NOT made up horse hocky, as you suggest. It is real.

Even if one does not believe in the science and the evidence, would you rather make a change to better our only Earth, only to find out it was not needed, or would you rather do nothing and continue the status quo only to find out the science was right and we have reached an unrecoverable spiral. I know I would rather do good even though it was not necessary.

So you say, others, including scientists believe otherwise. I'm not saying we should not do what we can to keep our environment clean but what is being thrust upon us without being well thought out using the hysteria of climate change does not sit well with the majority of people.

Forcing people into electric vehicles which absolutely do not meet the needs of the average person and dependent on an electric grid that can't handle our current needs never mind future needs is a prime example of this. A friend recently called me to pick up him and his family up who were stranded with their Tesla because the battery died while stuck in traffic 15 minutes after he left his home is indicative of the technology at this point in time.

And, as mentioned several times already, the challenges of current battery technology including the fact that we are reliant on other countries for the raw materials to create these batteries, how these raw materials are mined, the cost associated with replacing them when they reach the end of their lifespan and the cost and challenge of recycling them are just some reasons why many won't completely embrace the concept.

When I'm told my natural gas cooktop will be banned in order to save the environment, you have completely lost me, it's absurd.

How about the cost of replacing the battery in your EV when it reaches the end of it's life? Many thousands of dollars to replace it.

I just read an article which like most, I give little credence to but it claims California's green energy plan is an abysmal failure.

The way I see it, far more thought needs to be done before forcing these ideas down people's throats. Like it or not, the cleanest form of electricity generation is nuclear... Look at France, they seem to do just fine using it.

 

[skogkatt007]

I am sickened and disgusted by the paltry argument "we have to do something even if we're wrong".

The earth is not a greenhouse. It's better to compare it to a locked car in a parking lot. In late July, the temperature inside is absolutely deadly. By late January, that same car if left untouched is absolutelty frigid (ok in places where there are 4 distinct seasons). When did winter stop mattering??? Granted here in NJ the winters have been kind of mild for 5 years (thank God). But go back 10 years and there were the coldest days I've ever experienced (-15 F).

 

[Aaron_W]

Except for the lawn mower all of my power yard tools are electric. If the lawn mower dies, I'll probably go electric there too, but since it is a Honda and only 10 years old, I imagine it will still be going in 2045. I have a fairly small lawn so battery wed wacker and (eventually) lawn mower is fine.

I do have some gas chainsaws, but they are a hold over from when we lived in the mountains and burned 3-5 cords of wood each winter. They are a nuisance to use for most of my current yard needs. I get the Stihl out, once or twice every couple of years.
For limbing the trees or the occasional large tree branch coming down, my 12" cordless Ryobi does fine. No making up small batches of 2 stroke mix, 50% of which ends up sitting around until it goes bad.

I have a different of opinion on electric batteries- we have an ecological disaster waiting to happen due to our own ignorance

This is my biggest gripe with the push to all electric. It is just not thought out, it is the typical "we have to do something, and this is something".

Electric cars as small light commuters are great, but I've read several articles now that shows how the push to make large cars with ranges comparing to IC cars is missing the point.

The battery in a Tesla ranges from 1000-1700 lbs. The new electric Ford F150 has a battery weighing 1800lbs, that is half the weight of my Subaru Forester. Compare that to a Nissan Leaf, whose battery weighs in at 650lbs, and the current generation has a range of 150-200 miles.

This has impacts on cost where development of small practical electric commuters is being sidelined for more profitable luxury EVs. Crash safety, big heavy vehicles are more dangerous to other cars on the road. The simply not very efficient. All that weight requires additional power to operate, costs more and results in additional wear on both the car and the roads. There is also the additional hazard of lithium being a flammable metal, and very difficult to control. People thought VW Beetles were bad in a fire.

Of course part of this is the same logic that has people commuting solo in large SUVs.


Again a comparison between an IC and an EV. A Tesla Model 3 (the smallest Tesla, and not a particularly big car) weighs 4000lbs. A Hybrid Toyota Corolla is about the same size but only weighs 1900lbs. In an accident the Model 3 is like getting hit by a pickup truck, not a small car.


This all in on battery power is sidelining research on other potential clean technology. Hybrids are now well developed, significantly cleaner than pure IC cars, but they are no longer good enough since they still burn something.


This ban on small engines is similar. Sure battery tools work for many, but there are places where small gas or diesel engines just can't be replace yet. I'm still waiting to see how they intend to replace IC generators with electric since you typically need them where you have no electricity...

 

[7milesup]

The earth has had ice ages.

The earth has had very warm periods.

Those points are not open to debate. Entirely apart from anything man could have done (if he was even around), there have been drastic changes in the planet's climate.

Some people just want to talk about the last 200 years or so.

In the 1800s some volcano erupted and parts of the US had vast amounts of ash in the atmosphere. There were blizzards in June. But the effects of the event were not experienced for very long.

This is 100% wrong.
You need to look at the RATE of change. This earth has NEVER experienced this RATE of change. That is not debatable.
Also, you cannot use "it snowed in June in (fill in the blank)" as an argument, because that is an outlier that means nothing in the history of Earth's climate.

 

[skogkatt007]

I'd prefer an electric mower (even corded wouldn't bother me). The mower I have is probably 10 years old and just won't quit. I don't exactly baby it.

I cut up a fairly big tree with a corded Wen chainsaw. Gave me no problems. Even after I hit the chain links, broke something internally, it still kept going. I bought a new chain, but have neither installed or used it since. Spending 60$ on that suuuuure beat paying someone 1200$ to do it for me.