Honestly not 100% sure what all I'll use it for. I'm just getting into machining and wanting to buy equipment to get started. Its $1500 for a good sized lathe vs $4k for a Grizzly/PM thats smaller. I can make it fit into my machine work area.
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
Too big of a lathe?
- Thread starter 8mpg
- Start date
We only use our LS16 once in awhile, made some tools for working on Atmos clocks and mowing off a 3/8 depth of cut (3/4 single total reduction) was lots of fun.
Last use was trimming ends of tubes for wind chimes as they fit inside the spindle.
Most work however is on the SB.
The LS16 takes up a space of 10 x 4 feet on the floor for the machine alone where that grizzly will fit in a corner.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Last use was trimming ends of tubes for wind chimes as they fit inside the spindle.
Most work however is on the SB.
The LS16 takes up a space of 10 x 4 feet on the floor for the machine alone where that grizzly will fit in a corner.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 3,153
You're not exactly comparing apples to apples. A new Summit 16X40 lathe costs $19,990.00 while a new, smaller, Grizzly or PM is in the $4000,.00 range. Comparing new to new the Summit is 5 times the money of those you're comparing it to.
Here is an overview of the machine:
https://www.summitmt.com/products/16-inch-metal-lathes/
Unless the machine specs have changed over the years the through hole is 3 1/2" and the motor hp is 10. It uses a D1-8 chuck mounting system which is not all that common, and relatively expensive. New chucks run in the $450.00 to $800.00 range. Another feature is the tailstock size. It has an MT5 taper. That means either the tooling you will need has to have the MT5 taper, or you'll need to buy an adaptor so you can use less expensive smaller size tooling.
Also as previously mentioned be aware that the machine itself is a little over 8' long and almost 3 1/2' wide. It will also require another couple feet behind the machine for cleaning and maintenance, and several feet of space on the headstock end and operators side to load parts and change tooling. The current model 16X40 is a gap bed machine. Meaning there is a 26" swing over a 15" section with the remaining area over the bed having an 18" swing.
Here are some more specs on the current Summit 16x40 machine:
https://www.summitmt.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Summit_16-32018.pdf
If you're insistent on buying this machine at least see it run and take someone along that can assess the condition of the machine. The seller is asking about 10% of the price of a new machine. It could be that he just wants to get rid of it, or it could mean the machine has problems that are so expensive to fix he wants to dump it and buy something less costly to tool, run , and maintain.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,111
Projectnut has a good point, so long as the machine is not a wreck and comes with the basic attachments and a little tooling (and space, weight & power are not significant constraints in your situation) - for a similar installed cost to the Gizz machine you will have a vastly more competent machine. The subsequent resale value will also be much better. I have bought 5 ugly looking machines, the main issue with every one was that the shop was not going to invest in cleaning them. All had some sort of minor issue. Everyone is now in good condition and would sell for about 2x what I paid - not that it would be profitable (I'd make about $0.05 per hour), but I learned quite a bit about each machine and I am confident in the condition.
At least have a look at it (certainly take along a knowledgeable person to give their opinion). Of course, it could be a wreck, but HD industrial machines are very tough. It takes some dedicated effort to really thrash a well built machine. Often if there is a major problem it will be obvious. At $1500 plus moving & set up - your exposure is pretty minor (in this hobby, that is cheap - compared to many other hobbies, it is still cheap).
At least have a look at it (certainly take along a knowledgeable person to give their opinion). Of course, it could be a wreck, but HD industrial machines are very tough. It takes some dedicated effort to really thrash a well built machine. Often if there is a major problem it will be obvious. At $1500 plus moving & set up - your exposure is pretty minor (in this hobby, that is cheap - compared to many other hobbies, it is still cheap).
I disagree with the common thoughts posted before.
It is very easy and cheap to put a smaller 3 phase motor of 2-4 kW, or even vastly better, a brushless AC servo (like mine), on the 16x lathe.
This will run on any current available, subject to total power, just pick the right drive.
A VFD will give good-to-great torque and rpm ranges, from about 20 HZ - 6 Hz, or 300%.
And upto 100% extra rpm, or say 50-1000-2000 rpm, easily, from a 2 kW VFD, +/-.
There is zero real *need* to have a big motor on a biggish 16" lathe.
A 2 kW real industrial motor == 100-150€, new.
VFD about the same, add some belts, pulleys, steel framing.
It is very easy and cheap to put a smaller 3 phase motor of 2-4 kW, or even vastly better, a brushless AC servo (like mine), on the 16x lathe.
This will run on any current available, subject to total power, just pick the right drive.
A VFD will give good-to-great torque and rpm ranges, from about 20 HZ - 6 Hz, or 300%.
And upto 100% extra rpm, or say 50-1000-2000 rpm, easily, from a 2 kW VFD, +/-.
There is zero real *need* to have a big motor on a biggish 16" lathe.
A 2 kW real industrial motor == 100-150€, new.
VFD about the same, add some belts, pulleys, steel framing.
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2016
- Messages
- 2,872
IF you're comparing a new Griz/PM against a used machine, that's not a fair comparison. There are plenty of used machines out there
that cost less than $4000.00 that you could look at. It's not uncommon to to see large lathes for sale fairly cheaply: they're hard to sell.
Commercial shops are all moving to CNC, and they're too big for most hobbyists.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that you're in a hurry here. Wanting to get a machine and get started is understandable,
but perhaps the best thing to do is take a deep breath and slow things down a bit. The fact that you view two completely different
types of machines as alternatives to one another suggests that you don't have a clear idea of what you want or need. It's also
unclear what your budget is. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but just suggesting you take your time to find the right machine.
To do that, you FIRST need to decide what that means and how much you want to spend. Once you figure out what you want, then
go looking for it.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
- Messages
- 3,153
If you have any intentions of using the machine anywhere near it's design capacity a smaller motor isn't going to get you there. The chuck alone weighs between 100 lbs. and 150 lbs. The machine was designed for a maximum spindle speed of 2,000 rpm. While you may be able to increase the motor speed the headstock bearings are still only rated for the same 2,000 rpm, and a chuck for that size machine will also be balanced for the same maximum rpm.
Keep in mind the machine has a capacity of chucking up a 1,000 lb. work piece. I would think 2,000 rpm would be faster than I would want that much weight spinning, add another 1,000 rpm and its more like a death wish. This is a medium to large capacity machine designed to turn large parts within the required speed envelope. Changing out a motor and all the associated hardware only adds cost and doesn't do anything to increase its usability.
Rather than go through the time and expense to make modifications that will certainly lessen it's value should you decide in the future to sell it, find a machine that will fit your needs. Then you will be able to spend the money on tooling and stock. Personally before I would make extensive modifications to this machine I would consider spending the additional money to get either the Grizzly or the PM. Either of these machines will come with the basic tooling needed to run it, and won't require that the first few weeks of ownership be spent making modifications.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2018
- Messages
- 586
I agree, it will be some work getting a new machine set up, adjusted , leveled ,etc. I'd rather be turning than spending time on modifications.
Again, thanks guys.
I have been looking at lathes for a while now (6-8 months). Not really knowing size has been the killer. I have been wanting to keep costs down but have just seen way too much worn out stuff locally going for too much money. I know an industrial style machine cant compare to a hobby machine. Im just looking to keep prices down. My original goal was $2500 for a machine then slowly invest in tooling. This lathe does fit that goal which is why I was interested in it.
I have been looking at lathes for a while now (6-8 months). Not really knowing size has been the killer. I have been wanting to keep costs down but have just seen way too much worn out stuff locally going for too much money. I know an industrial style machine cant compare to a hobby machine. Im just looking to keep prices down. My original goal was $2500 for a machine then slowly invest in tooling. This lathe does fit that goal which is why I was interested in it.