Is there a dedicated thread where techniques can be uploaded for beginners, without breaking self promotion rules?

[extropic]

And I was admittingly frustrated until I realized that the issue is - they were all right answers. For them. And I was as a beginner supposed to distill the right answer for me from those posts.

We're hijacking Parlo's thread but your question is SO important, I'm in. As a matter of fact I should start a new thread. Later . . .

The answer is ASK A BETTER QUESTION. Yes, I'm standing on a virtual table, with a virtual megaphone, virtually shouting that answer for all to hear. I mean no disrespect and I have good intent. Lighten up.

Asking a better question is particularly important for newbies and infrequent poster's because you haven't been visible enough on H-M for the other contributors to know you're frame of reference. Long standing frequent contributors have established a reputation (to some degree) that helps other frequent contributors to "know where they're coming from".

You're obviously articulate and you have asked the best question you understood. How can you ask a better question?
DEFINE YOUR FRAME OF REFFERENCE. If you ask a question without defining YOUR frame of reference, the replies are sure to be based on the replier's frame of reference = all over the map.

One idea is to create a text document (Word or whatever) that describes your frame of reference. The text can be edited, copied and pasted to save you time asking your next question.

Describe of YOUR environment.
What is your skill/experience level? Are you a student, accountant, A&P mechanic, brain surgeon, lifelong home machinist?????
What are you trying to do? e.g. Mill a flat on 1" long x .2" wide on .50 diameter 1018 (notice actual DIMENSIONS and material defined).
What exactly is your problem? e.g. I'm not confident about how to secure the workpiece.
What have you already done to find the answer to your question? It shows you've tried to help yourself and might minimize redundant replies (LOL).
What do you have to work with (that you think might be applied to the answer)? Want to mill? What mill do you have? What workholding accessories do you have for the mill? Want to turn? What lathe do you have. What workholding accessories do you have for the lathe?
What is your budget/spending style? e.g. Pauper (minimum $), trying to build some capacity ($$), tool acquisition is my passion ($$$$$$$$)
Are there any other factors that may affect your options? e.g. Physical limitations, SWMBO on your case, no plasma cutting in the house

There may be additional significant factors that I've not remembered to list, but it's a good start.

A picture of your milling machine showing both )) of your workholding accessories would be worth a 1000 words.
A picture of the set-up/workpiece, mounted to your best effort, would also be worth 1000 words.

By asking a question, you're asking others to do some work for your benefit. Put in the effort to ask a better question so the replies can be more focused and useful to your circumstances.

STEMthemachining posted a reply that seems to have touched a nerve in me.
Although I've used all caps and bold in a few places, don't be offended.
My intent is to call attention to the important issue and to be helpful to all readers.

 

[Parlo]

Some old sayings I've heard regarding skill levels.

Knowledge can be taught you can't learn intellegence.
Wisdom is the efficient application of knowledge.
If you don't know, then you don't know that you don't know.

All are generalisations but help explain why equally educated and equally experienced tradesmen produce different levels of workmanship.

I fully agree with the earlier post asking for more fundamental information 101 lessons. This is a crucial part of learning a trade, without these building blocks a firm foundation can't be built. It's no good building a knowledge base of techniques without knowing why and how they came to be.

People often consider "experience" to be an asset, I don't subscribe to this entirely. An experienced person can do something wrong all their working life. Only good experience counts, many experienced people never get the chance to work alongside master craftsmen.

 

[STEMtheMachining]

The answer is ASK A BETTER QUESTION. Yes, I'm standing on a virtual table, with a virtual megaphone, virtually shouting that answer for all to hear. I mean no disrespect and I have good intent. Lighten up.

This touches on the paradox I mentioned earlier. If I knew enough to ask a better question in the beginners section - I wouldn't be posting in the beginners section.

But I'm asking the best question my level of knowledge allows me to ask.

Beginners are not doing it to frustrate anyone, because the only person getting frustrated is us.

How exactly are you supposed to show something when your whole question is how to get that something in the first place?

Like I showed in my example: I have a plan to make something that's suggested for beginners, I have metal. But because that plan doesn't detail out how to set up that material, what cutters to use to achieve the finished product and WHY, I don't even know where to begin.

It'd like me handing you HCl, Tris, the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation and then telling you to ask "better questions" when you can't make a simple buffer.

Of course you're confused! You stumbled into a world where despite being intelligent you have no clue what the rules are regarding organic chemistry, how compounds react, weak vs strong acids and their dissociation in water, or why not knowing them could get you seriously injured. You don't know what you don't know, so you don't even know what to ask.

Only in our cases as beginners - we paid for the acid, the beaker, and now we're trying to figure out how much of the lab equipment is vital to allow us to do the job, and how much is really just about doing the job easier and faster.

How are you supposed to ask better questions when you don't know what questions will even get you the answers your seeking?

Again, I am truly greatful to the community for the help you've given me and other beginners, but sometimes I don't think you experienced machinists realize how mind-boggling this all is to someone who's never done it before.

 

[extropic]

I fully agree with the earlier post asking for more fundamental information 101 lessons. This is a crucial part of learning a trade, without these building blocks a firm foundation can't be built. It's no good building a knowledge base of techniques without knowing why and how they came to be.

You agree! So please post a new thread showing some "fundamental information 101 lesson".
Suggested thread title "Parlo's Fundamentals, Lesson #1, Description".

Why would I like a new forum?
It allows a place where a common group can post tips at random without answering specific questions.

Doesn't my suggestion above accomplish the same thing. Anyone who want's to see all of "Parlo's Fundamentals" can search on those key words or select to "Follow" Parlo and be notified of all your posts. Do you know how to "Follow" a member?

Otherwise, what you've been asking for is "Parlo's Forum" to contain your threads. I say "Parlo's Forum", not "Qualified Tradesmen's Forum" because you have not replied with any suggestion regarding how/who to vet the credentials of any prospective members of the group. None of the current H-M Staff have jumped forward exclaiming "I'll handle that". It's a non starter.

 

[STEMtheMachining]

People often consider "experience" to be an asset, I don't subscribe to this entirely. An experienced person can do something wrong all their working life. Only good experience counts, many experienced people never get the chance to work alongside master craftsmen.

A good example of this from my career in the military is running.

Every Marine runs. It's part of the the daily PT we do. And everyone THINKS they know how. Put one foot in front of the other, pump your arms, and then just mimic whoever in your squad is fastest.

And I did that for 6 years. Every day, 20 miles a week, running how I thought was best for me, and then just thinking that sore knees and shin splints was part of running.

Then I went to "the pointy tip of the spear" batallion, and we were actually TAUGHT how to run by the cross country coach from UCSD, from physiology of running to a litany of technical details regarding gait, foot rotation, and even pelvic tilt over a 3 day course consisting of both classroom and drills.

I learned more in 3 days of running education than I did in almost 10 years of trying to figure it out on my own. I was able to double my distance, cut almost a minute off of my 5k time, and no longer had sore joints. And at 4x years old , I still run 20 miles a week as a retired Marine.

I didn't know what I didn't know, and my bad habits that I had no idea were bad became second nature.

 

[extropic]

This touches on the paradox I mentioned earlier. If I knew enough to ask a better question in the beginners section - I wouldn't be posting in the beginners section.

Did you read the rest of that reply? I specified seven subject areas which, when answered in your a 'question', contribute significantly to defining your frame of reference, your world, your point of view and should help get more applicable replies.

Establishing a frame of reference for a question is a fundamental. I don't know how to make it any simpler more simple than that.

 

[STEMtheMachining]

Again, maybe it's my ignorance as a beginner in this field speaking, but I don't understand why it would be so difficult to make a thread saying:
"Machining fundamentals 101 project: Hammer" and then write it out like it's a recipe.

"You will require the following:

1 1/2 x 12 inch piece of stainless steel
1 1 x 4 inch piece of brass
1 parting tool, right hand turning, and facing tool
1 center drill
1 center for turning
1 bottom tap and the appropriate sized drill
1 chamfer tool"

And then label each step on the blueprint A, B, C, D, E

To perform operation A, facing and turning down the handle

1) Clamp the piece centered in the lathe
2) face the material (using a light cut)
3) drill with the center drill
4) clamp between live centers
5) turn the handle down using the right hand turning tool

And so on and so forth.

This way a beginner can look at the thread, figure out exactly what they need, and get it if they need it.

 

[EricB]

We're hijacking Parlo's thread but your question is SO important, I'm in. As a matter of fact I should start a new thread. Later . . .

The answer is ASK A BETTER QUESTION. Yes, I'm standing on a virtual table, with a virtual megaphone, virtually shouting that answer for all to hear. I mean no disrespect and I have good intent. Lighten up.

Asking a better question is particularly important for newbies and infrequent poster's because you haven't been visible enough on H-M for the other contributors to know you're frame of reference. Long standing frequent contributors have established a reputation (to some degree) that helps other frequent contributors to "know where they're coming from".

You're obviously articulate and you have asked the best question you understood. How can you ask a better question?
DEFINE YOUR FRAME OF REFFERENCE. If you ask a question without defining YOUR frame of reference, the replies are sure to be based on the replier's frame of reference = all over the map.

One idea is to create a text document (Word or whatever) that describes your frame of reference. The text can be edited, copied and pasted to save you time asking your next question.

Describe of YOUR environment.
What is your skill/experience level? Are you a student, accountant, A&P mechanic, brain surgeon, lifelong home machinist?????
What are you trying to do? e.g. Mill a flat on 1" long x .2" wide on .50 diameter 1018 (notice actual DIMENSIONS and material defined).
What exactly is your problem? e.g. I'm not confident about how to secure the workpiece.
What have you already done to find the answer to your question? It shows you've tried to help yourself and might minimize redundant replies (LOL).
What do you have to work with (that you think might be applied to the answer)? Want to mill? What mill do you have? What workholding accessories do you have for the mill? Want to turn? What lathe do you have. What workholding accessories do you have for the lathe?
What is your budget/spending style? e.g. Pauper (minimum $), trying to build some capacity ($$), tool acquisition is my passion ($$$$$$$$)
Are there any other factors that may affect your options? e.g. Physical limitations, SWMBO on your case, no plasma cutting in the house

There may be additional significant factors that I've not remembered to list, but it's a good start.

A picture of your milling machine showing both )) of your workholding accessories would be worth a 1000 words.
A picture of the set-up/workpiece, mounted to your best effort, would also be worth 1000 words.

By asking a question, you're asking others to do some work for your benefit. Put in the effort to ask a better question so the replies can be more focused and useful to your circumstances.

STEMthemachining posted a reply that seems to have touched a nerve in me.
Although I've used all caps and bold in a few places, don't be offended.
My intent is to call attention to the important issue and to be helpful to all readers.

Perhaps the beginners technique thread the OP was wanting should be a sticky at the top of the Beginners Forum explaining how to ask that meaningful question!

 

[WobblyHand]

Again, maybe it's my ignorance as a beginner in this field speaking, but I don't understand why it would be so difficult to make a thread saying:
"Machining fundamentals 101 project: Hammer" and then write it out like it's a recipe.

"You will require the following:

1 1/2 x 12 inch piece of stainless steel
1 1 x 4 inch piece of brass
1 parting tool, right hand turning, and facing tool
1 center drill
1 center for turning
1 bottom tap and the appropriate sized drill
1 chamfer tool"

And then label each step on the blueprint A, B, C, D, E

To perform operation A, facing and turning down the handle

1) Clamp the piece centered in the lathe
2) face the material (using a light cut)
3) drill with the center drill
4) clamp between live centers
5) turn the handle down using the right hand turning tool

And so on and so forth.

This way a beginner can look at the thread, figure out exactly what they need, and get it if they need it.

Some threads here are very detailed, some are not. The tutorial grade posts are usually very well written, and explain things quite well. One does have to search to find them, however. I try to read many of the projects area posts so I can follow them from the beginning to the end. I learn a lot about how to do things that way.

As a beginning beginner, I often wrote down the order of operations on paper to figure out what I needed to do, and when I needed to do it. Now, I have less need to do this, but sometimes it is helpful. Writing stuff down helps you organize your thoughts. It can help you rehearse machining in your mind, what will happen next. It also helps you create a better post. By including the order of operations in your post, and what you want to do, others can help you. I recall a post of mine, specifically about order of operations. By laying it all out there, people could understand what I was thinking and my thought process. I got some helpful responses. Believe me, I stumbled over nomenclature, a lot. Eventually I learned more.

It's hard to preface your posts with, "I don't know what I am doing, but does this make sense?". But unless you expose what specifically you are thinking, no one will know. It does place a burden on new people to ask intelligent questions, when they are just starting out. Learning the terminology is difficult. However, if you make attempts to clearly state what you are trying to do, and perhaps how you think you might go about it, (the order of operations,) what equipment is at your disposal, and maybe some clear pictures from various points of view, it makes it easier for members to advise you.

 

[matthewsx]

As someone who went to school for film/TV I personally "HATE" YouTube as a way to learn anything.

Yes, there are very skilled people on there who actually can explain how to do something. Sometimes they can even manage to frame a shot so you can see. Sometimes it's even worth waiting for the advertisement to end so you can watch the rest of the video.

But, the time I have to spend looking at videos made by someone with even less skill than I have with the topic is absolutely infuriating.

Fundamentals of shop practice are covered in so many good books it's not even funny. Reading "How to Run a Lathe" will give anyone enough background to ask good questions about their own particular setup and project. Yes, if you're starting out in this hobby you should begin with a lathe if at all possible.

As with any forum there are members who take the time to work through things with newbies and share from a lifetimes worth of experience. There are about a dozen or two members on here who I always read what they have to say because they understand and are willing to explain, some are on this very thread....

Anyone who is wanting to get into this hobby and just have stuff explained so they can get good results from the beginning is probably going to be disappointed no matter what they look at, read, or the questions they ask. We see them join and leave every month and the issue isn't if they are getting good advice, it's personal attitude.

I love this hobby because I can always be learning something new, this forum is an awesome resource that I am grateful for on a daily basis.

Thanks Mods, your hard work is what makes this place my online home for learning everything from workholding to particle physics....

John