Is there a dedicated thread where techniques can be uploaded for beginners, without breaking self promotion rules?

[Parlo]

If you want a set of videos for beginners, search Youtube for "tubelcain"
I think he has covered about anything you'd want to do in a home shop.

You still have to careful with all content. This recent one from Tubalcain is completely incorrect. He suggests using the points on a hex collet holder as datums which they are not, also he would have had better success using the side of the cutter, preserving the corners for when required.

 

[mmcmdl]

Being a hobby site , not sure what difference a techniques thread would be useful for ? Most on here are not machining for a living . I'll give a job to 4 different people . They'll make it in 4 different ways . They achieve the same result . What makes a good machinist ? Knowing how to plan the job out to make a profit for your employer . If you use the Bell Curve chart , it's not hard to tell your top go to guys . I tell my group , if you're gonna F it up , you better do it quick . A 10 hr job that a guy takes 40 hrs and scraps the job is no longer employed , that's just life .

 

[Jim F]

Still need to be careful comments on Uploaded YT vids.
I got in trouble commenting on a video on here, seems the YT "star" is a lurking member.

 

[brino]

First great conversation everyone!
...and @Parlo thanks for starting this off.

I'm going to reply to a few of the phrases and words that you've used above. My intent is to clarify why I'm having trouble understanding how to converge on what you really want.

@extropic, thanks for that very detailed post. You have obviously thought about this a lot.
It is fantastic that our moderators continue to be so respectful and caring.
That's why this is the only site I visit daily.
Thanks again!

My content is predominately unique techniques that still conform to first principles. As you state, output that is "Good, bad or indifferent" is being posted, I was hoping for a place where only good is posted. With the restrictions I suggest applied then questions from beginners can be directed at qualified tradesmen and their replies overseen by their peers.

For me one of the many benefits of this site is getting any process or operation "peer reviewed".
Sure it may be informal, and more of a brain-storm/sounding board, but I know I can trust the people here to guide me.
I can also trust that when members speak up, even against my ideas, that it will:

1. be for the benefit of me and others,
2. normally include a reference to a better method/material/tool, and
3. be done politely and respectfully.

I cannot be guaranteed that kind of response anywhere else.
The post linked to above by @savarin is a great example.

If I wanted wild answers with no peer review I can go to youtube..... but I normally don't.
That site is so obviously set up for content monetization.
Negative comments get deleted; even when pointing out a dangerous operation.

Of course nothing on "the net" should be trusted blindly but instead be put thru someones own internal safety filter.
At least here the trust is earned, never blind.

Brian

 

[tq60]

Aside from videos...

Back to maybe op intent.

A new operator may or may not have a give level of skill.

In the da when high schools still had a machine shop there were simple tasks to be learned.

For welding you started with a couple pieces of metal, were shown how to adjust flame and create a puddle, then you had to demonstrate a good puddle weld before they gave you a filler rod.

For lathe similar things.

A spool for 2 collar alignment of the tail stock is a great early project as in involves many operations to Learn aincluding good measurement and equipment alignment.

Results is a tool to use for a lifetime.

Hammer or other items working up to maybe wobbler engines.

All of us has that simple or creative item that could be used as a training aid.

Maybe a "First Projects" thread where things like this can be posted.

Simple rules like only one machine needed, meaning all tasks on same machine.

Another could be limiting the amount of steps?

Could create multiple levels of skill thread and of course different areas or different things.


Welding
Lathe
Mill
Wax on
Wax off


Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Parlo]

Thankyou all for commenting on this thread. It seems to be more complicated than I thought.

From the previous posts I think it is generally agreed that there is a lot of poor machining content all over the internet. One example was just posted on this thread that made two basic fundamental errors - and that was from "YOUR YOUTUBE SHOP TEACHER". I've plenty of other examples from others. Two in particular make me smile who both felt qualified to upload how to use a calliper videos and only knew 3 of the 4 ways to measure with one. lol

I hoped the idea of a dedicated thread with content only posted by formally apprenticed machinists would be of a consistently high standard. Only people who have made the sacrifice and have learned not only the knowledge of being a tradesman but the ethos too, can contribute. This could be simple if only apprenticed tradesmen comment and others who have not made a 4 - 5 or even 7 year commitment to learn the why as well as the how.

If others do need to post their experiences there are already plenty of other opportunities on the forum.
So I don't think any policing of the content will be required, if we all respect the right of formally apprenticed tradesmen to have a small thread/forum of their own. This place can be where beginners can browse to glean some tips and knowledge on subjects that they have not yet considered or challenged.

Currently the site has a dedicated forum for beginners where they can ask for help and answers can be posted as usual with other answers on the new forum from qualified apprenticed machinists and toolmakers.

 

[STEMtheMachining]

Hi, beginner here. In fact, I'm one of the people who would hugely benefit from this idea, but lack the experience to use it.

Seems paradoxical, but let me explain.

When you're a rank beginner, and you want to make a milling hammer, you look for plans to make a hammer.

Then you start trying to figure out what tooling you need to make said hammer. It's not self-explanatory so you ask 3 different machinists

Machinist A tells you you need a,b,c
Machinist B tells you you need a,c,d
Machinist C tells you you need d,f,x

And so on.

And the thing it takes a while to know is - they're all right. If you use THEIR lathe/mill, THEIR vise, and THEIR brand/size tooling - you can build a perfect hammer using those suggestions.

But what if you don't have their equipment ? What changes?

The answer is - everything. And nothing. But maybe something. And neither they nor you will know for sure.

So what does a beginner do? We buy a,b,c,d, f, and x, usually of substandard quality to make up for the quantity necessary, get substandard results because we focused too much on HOW those machinists did something, rather than WHY - and get frustrated.

Or we get terrified of breaking the machine, our tooling, or ourselves and simply don't ever start.

Especially with the cost of bar and round stock right now. Buying a bar of machinable brass and stainless steel to make that hammer will set you back almost $50, because beginners don't have robust piles of metal stock just lying around to make those things from.

This is the same reason we don't use search much. We're looking for the exact set of circumstances that benefit us without understanding the over and underlaps, so we get either no results or too many.

I'm looking for information about MY machine, or MY situation, and I lack the knowledge to understand that the advice given applies to all of the machines and situations, in some instances.

So if we're going to build a thread like this, it needs to focus on WHY the part needs that particular end mill or tap, not HOW so that we with the Taigs, HFs, Atlases, Proxxons, and Unimats can take that information from you with your Bridgeports and Clausings and apply it to OUR build.

[gets off of soapbox]

 

[WobblyHand]

Hi, beginner here. In fact, I'm one of the people who would hugely benefit from this idea, but lack the experience to use it.

Seems paradoxical, but let me explain.

When you're a rank beginner, and you want to make a milling hammer, you look for plans to make a hammer.

Then you start trying to figure out what tooling you need to make said hammer. It's not self-explanatory so you ask 3 different machinists

Machinist A tells you you need a,b,c
Machinist B tells you you need a,c,d
Machinist C tells you you need d,f,x

And so on.

And the thing it takes a while to know is - they're all right. If you use THEIR lathe/mill, THEIR vise, and THEIR brand/size tooling - you can build a perfect hammer using those suggestions.

But what if you don't have their equipment ? What changes?

The answer is - everything. And nothing. But maybe something. And neither they nor you will know for sure.

So what does a beginner do? We buy a,b,c,d, f, and x, usually of substandard quality to make up for the quantity necessary, get substandard results because we focused too much on HOW those machinists did something, rather than WHY - and get frustrated.

Or we get terrified of breaking the machine, our tooling, or ourselves and simply don't ever start.

Especially with the cost of bar and round stock right now. Buying a bar of machinable brass and stainless steel to make that hammer will set you back almost $50, because beginners don't have robust piles of metal stock just lying around to make those things from.

This is the same reason we don't use search much. We're looking for the exact set of circumstances that benefit us without understanding the over and underlaps, so we get either no results or too many.

I'm looking for information about MY machine, or MY situation, and I lack the knowledge to understand that the advice given applies to all of the machines and situations, in some instances.

So if we're going to build a thread like this, it needs to focus on WHY the part needs that particular end mill or tap, not HOW so that we with the Taigs, HFs, Atlases, Proxxons, and Unimats can take that information from you with your Bridgeports and Clausings and apply it to OUR build.

[gets off of soapbox]

Well said.

 

[STEMtheMachining]

Aside from videos...

Back to maybe op intent.

A new operator may or may not have a give level of skill.

In the da when high schools still had a machine shop there were simple tasks to be learned.

For welding you started with a couple pieces of metal, were shown how to adjust flame and create a puddle, then you had to demonstrate a good puddle weld before they gave you a filler rod.

For lathe similar things.

A spool for 2 collar alignment of the tail stock is a great early project as in involves many operations to Learn aincluding good measurement and equipment alignment.

Results is a tool to use for a lifetime.

Hammer or other items working up to maybe wobbler engines.

All of us has that simple or creative item that could be used as a training aid.

Maybe a "First Projects" thread where things like this can be posted.

Simple rules like only one machine needed, meaning all tasks on same machine.

Another could be limiting the amount of steps?

Could create multiple levels of skill thread and of course different areas or different things.


Welding
Lathe
Mill
Wax on
Wax off


Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

Giving a beginner a plan and saying "make this" is great - in person. Because the environment is controlled. The tooling is suited for the task, and you can give each student step by step instructions for THAT machine to achieve the desired result.

The problem is that beginners typically buy machines and tooling of dubious quality that fit their budget, and then try to shoe-horn those exact steps to work with their stuff, and the result usually ends up in the "shop mishaps" section of this message board.

The most confounding thing about machining speaking from someone who's a complete novice - is that there are so many right ways to do the same operation, and none of them exactly fit your particular circumstances.

Case in point: clamping a workpiece. I asked what I thought was a straight forward question regarding some fundamentals of clamping a workpiece for a milling operation, something very important in terms of both safety and success. I was looking for a basic shopping list of set up materials I would need to perform basic operations on basic materials. The answers I got ranged from "buy a giant milling vise and a huge clamp set" (I have a unimat, so my lathe is smaller than that vice) to "don't buy anything until you need it" (how do I know what I need until I try to mill it and it flies across the room !?!) to "here's my $10000 set up plus $500 in shims I used to do this which looks completely unsafe!" (How does that help me? All I want to know is how to clamp a piece of round stock so I can cut a flat along the face). And I was admittingly frustrated until I realized that the issue is - they were all right answers. For them. And I was as a beginner supposed to distill the right answer for me from those posts.

 

[extropic]

Currently the site has a dedicated forum for beginners where they can ask for help and answers can be posted as usual with other answers on the new forum from qualified apprenticed machinists and toolmakers.

@Parlo
What you proposed in the OP is very difficult to implement as witnessed by the fact that you didn't reply with any solutions to my questions.

However, I don't think anyone is disrespecting or disregarding your commitment and experience.

I took your 'new forum' idea to be sincere and well meaning, so I tried to explore, define the idea and to point out some challenges in implementing it. I think it's pretty clear that your 'new forum' is unlikely to become a reality.

H-M has various members who are experts in many varied fields. Many of them manage to contribute within the current structure. That being said, please answer one question for me. Why would you prefer to have a 'new forum' rather than respond to questions or create your own threads within the current H-M forum(s) structure?