Line boring one piece vtwin kohler block

[FTlatheworks]

2 thoughts of which you likely have already thought of 1 and 2 is really a thought exercise:

1. looking at your pictures, where the plate unbolts to provide access to the internals of the block, could you fabricate a plate to bolt to that area which you could bolt to your carriage for work holding? If you removed your tail stock, could this plate be setup in such a manner as to give you more room to the head stock even if it required a rest back to the flat sections of the ways? with the tail stock out of the way from the end of the jaws on the chuck to the end of the bed is about 40"+/-.

2. There are several engines built much like the old VW bug with bolt on Jugs/Cylinders (air cooled) that can be had very reasonable. Design and fab your own block and use one of those possibly with the cylinder head made for the head to simplify and the guts from your engine... That would not seem a very long stretch, not to complex. A lot would depend upon the rules of the class you are racing in....

I think so, but as others have said I think I would probably mess it up. Also, at what point is the amount of time I spend to do that costing me more than 180 dollars to bore it out? With my measurements, the block is just too big for my little lathe, even with the carriage removed. I like your thinking though.

As for what you are saying about vw engines. I love the idea and like where you’re going with that. The problem is lack of a mill and many tools needed to fab a block like that. What were you thinking for fabricating the block? I wish that I could find a way to fab my own block. I guess if it were basically a square shape without cooling fins it could be done for sure, but I will have to investigate further. I didn’t realize vw had separate jugs. My goal is to make something gnarly fast as cheap as possible. I want the scariest and sketchiest acceleration, even if it’s on a go kart.

I also like the cleanliness and high hp level of this build and plan to copy it eventually once I learn more about these small vtwins and fabrication.

 

[matthewsx]

So, when I built/rebuilt race engines for customers I would always replace any questionable parts.

Especially with something like a block, where I didn't have a bunch of work into it, just buying a new one was a default choice if things weren't in spec. Heads, which had a bunch of porting time and effort into I would definitely try to rework. New guides, seats, etc. as needed.

Race engines by definition have a finite life-cycle, especially when you start adding nitro-methane to the fuel.

This one started out as an 8hp 305cc and produced ~34hp on straight methanol, we told customers not to use more than 25% nitro. Got them back a few times in little pieces....



Sorry the pic is so tiny, somewhere I should have a better one but these sold for $4200 at the time.

John

 

[FTlatheworks]

So, when I built/rebuilt race engines for customers I would always replace any questionable parts.

Especially with something like a block, where I didn't have a bunch of work into it, just buying a new one was a default choice if things weren't in spec. Heads, which had a bunch of porting time and effort into I would definitely try to rework. New guides, seats, etc. as needed.

Race engines by definition have a finite life-cycle, especially when you start adding nitro-methane to the fuel.

This one started out as an 8hp 305cc and produced ~34hp on straight methanol, we told customers not to use more than 25% nitro. Got them back a few times in little pieces....

View attachment 469773

Sorry the pic is so tiny, somewhere I should have a better one but these sold for $4200 at the time.

John

can I message you and pick your brain on carbs and a few other things I’m unsure of?

 

[matthewsx]

can I message you and pick your brain on carbs and a few other things I’m unsure of?

Sure, it's been a while but I may remember a couple of things.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I think so, but as others have said I think I would probably mess it up. Also, at what point is the amount of time I spend to do that costing me more than 180 dollars to bore it out? With my measurements, the block is just too big for my little lathe, even with the carriage removed. I like your thinking though.

As for what you are saying about vw engines. I love the idea and like where you’re going with that. The problem is lack of a mill and many tools needed to fab a block like that. What were you thinking for fabricating the block? I wish that I could find a way to fab my own block. I guess if it were basically a square shape without cooling fins it could be done for sure, but I will have to investigate further. I didn’t realize vw had separate jugs. My goal is to make something gnarly fast as cheap as possible. I want the scariest and sketchiest acceleration, even if it’s on a go kart.

I also like the cleanliness and high hp level of this build and plan to copy it eventually once I learn more about these small vtwins and fabrication.

The block can be machined from a chunk of aluminum, designed to accept the jugs of your choice, want it to be a split case? that can happen too. You would need a mill though. I would design a block based upon the engine you are using and design it to take the jugs because it would be easier to reuse other parts from the standard engine.

The original bugs had a 1600cc flat 4 air cooled with bolt on jugs and a split case, very simple creatures 35 or 40 HP. we use to pull the 80mm jugs and put 101mm jugs on them and with a bit of machine work they would make 100 to 120 HP. There was, at one time a commercial lawn mower that used a similar design as the old VW Bug and 911/914 Porsche.

Additional Thought exercise, not that you would use this engine, but as an ideas:

Your Source For All Your Aircooled Vintage VW Parts.

Vintage VW Parts, Classic Volkswagen Parts, VW Bug Parts, VW Beetle Parts, and VW Bus Parts.

www.jbugs.com

Your Source For All Your Aircooled Vintage VW Parts.

Vintage VW Parts, Classic Volkswagen Parts, VW Bug Parts, VW Beetle Parts, and VW Bus Parts.

www.jbugs.com

1600cc Engine Build Series - Part 2 - Top End Assembly

1600cc Engine Build Series - Top End Assembly

www.jbugs.com

 

[FTlatheworks]

The block can be machined from a chunk of aluminum, designed to accept the jugs of your choice, want it to be a split case? that can happen too. You would need a mill though. I would design a block based upon the engine you are using and design it to take the jugs because it would be easier to reuse other parts from the standard engine.

The original bugs had a 1600cc flat 4 air cooled with bolt on jugs and a split case, very simple creatures 35 or 40 HP. we use to pull the 80mm jugs and put 101mm jugs on them and with a bit of machine work they would make 100 to 120 HP. There was, at one time a commercial lawn mower that used a similar design as the old VW Bug and 911/914 Porsche.

Additional Thought exercise, not that you would use this engine, but as an ideas:

Your Source For All Your Aircooled Vintage VW Parts.

Vintage VW Parts, Classic Volkswagen Parts, VW Bug Parts, VW Beetle Parts, and VW Bus Parts.

www.jbugs.com

Your Source For All Your Aircooled Vintage VW Parts.

Vintage VW Parts, Classic Volkswagen Parts, VW Bug Parts, VW Beetle Parts, and VW Bus Parts.

www.jbugs.com

1600cc Engine Build Series - Part 2 - Top End Assembly

1600cc Engine Build Series - Top End Assembly

www.jbugs.com

That’s awesome and exactly what I’m looking to do. if I had a mill none of this would be an issue. I know it would take a while to get that good, but I’m limited by my tooling and not affording a mill. I would have (attempted to) milled my own custom engine using existing rods, pistons, cranks by now.

I know eventually I will be setting up speeduino on. A single or twin engine too. The only problem with these engine you’re talking about is the size.. I would imagine there are cheaper vtwin jugs for Harley’s, or lord knows what else.

I saw a Chevy v8 that a guy cut 2 cylinders off the block and bought heads and used old crank, rods, and pistons and made a badass 180hp vtwin Chevy engine pretty easily with just a mill and lathe.

 

[AllenV]

You can do it with a half inch drill and a strong back but alas I can't.
A drill press is the way to go. It gives you some where to make the thing stationary.
If you want to remove material it has to be stationary.
Cast iron is pretty easy but cast steel is harder and will take longer.
A little misalignment is handled by a u joint in the driver.
You can find them used on Craigslist sometimes.
New they are expensive. I don't tractor pull but I do work on older garden tractors and
I like my 50 year old wheelhorses and I work them hard.

The 1/2 inch drill and strong back does work. When I was twenty-something and in school my car broke a ring. Tore it down and found that my rebuild of a two years earlier was faulty. I did not notice taper worn in the ring grooves. This caused ring flex and early ring failure. Anyhow... being a poor student I bought new pistons one size larger and bored all 4 cylinders (cast iron) with a 1/2 inch drill and a cylinder hone like the one linked below. Lots of patience. Stopped frequently to measure top middle and bottom with a cylinder bore gage. I would concentrate the hone on the top or bottom to fix any taper that tried to manifest itself. The drill was an old gear reduction model that could run below 100 RPM with careful operation.
I may have needed 3 hours or so per cylinder. After that the engine was flawless.

Lisle 15000 Lisle Cylinder Hones | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Lisle Cylinder Hones with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Cylinder Hone Tools at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[verbotenwhisky]

That’s awesome and exactly what I’m looking to do. if I had a mill none of this would be an issue. I know it would take a while to get that good, but I’m limited by my tooling and not affording a mill. I would have (attempted to) milled my own custom engine using existing rods, pistons, cranks by now.

I know eventually I will be setting up speeduino on. A single or twin engine too. The only problem with these engine you’re talking about is the size.. I would imagine there are cheaper vtwin jugs for Harley’s, or lord knows what else.

I saw a Chevy v8 that a guy cut 2 cylinders off the block and bought heads and used old crank, rods, and pistons and made a badass 180hp vtwin Chevy engine pretty easily with just a mill and lathe.

It looks like a fun project. Yes there are some smaller versions of the same Ideas.... I have built a number of hybrids over the years using a combination of parts. All one needs is a set of TRW parts books and the time to find a part that can be used and at that point the word Ford, General Motors, Dodge and AMC loose all meaning.

 

[matthewsx]

JR Billet Animal Block 1" Tall Deck

In 1992 JR Race Car began manufacturing parts for the newly accepted NHRA Junior Drag Racing. JR Race Car initially offered components such as turn key Jr dragster chassis, engines, clutches and chassis components (manufactured in house from the beginning!)

www.jrracecar.com

 

[verbotenwhisky]

JR Billet Animal Block 1" Tall Deck

In 1992 JR Race Car began manufacturing parts for the newly accepted NHRA Junior Drag Racing. JR Race Car initially offered components such as turn key Jr dragster chassis, engines, clutches and chassis components (manufactured in house from the beginning!)

www.jrracecar.com

I like that, I think the only thing I would change about that is a bolt on jug.