Packing up the Shop

[TomS]

Extortion. You could help him find out the meaning of the word "contract."

I did contract negotiation for the last 16 years of my career. If it wasn't spelled out in the scope of supply then it wasn't included. I have a contract that says I paid for all upgrades and options but that doesn't seem to matter the them.

 

[TomS]

Usually the building contract on the end side is not considered going in. You trust what the builder says and should but so many times things get late and there is nothing to do but wait, pay more as needed and wait more..

Seems like it would be better to have penalties for not completing on time like many municipal contracts are for roads, etc..

I know a family that was promised to get in the new condo before Thanksgiving and just got another 2 week delay after many delays.

Like I said in my response to Bob I did contracts for a while. I wanted to put an end date in the building contract but they didn't want anything to do with that sort of language. I've considered talking with an attorney but after thinking it through there's not a lot to gain. Probably will cost more than what's on the table now. It's more of a "principle" thing with me at this point.

Off to my son's 40th birthday party and play with the grandkids. Today will be a good day.

 

[jbolt]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Tom. Having been in construction for 32 years and a general contractor for the last 26 years I have been on both sides of the table.

I have had subcontractors do the same thing and it is always a difficult situation. On one hand you have negotiated a fixed price with the client and on the other had the mistake not occurred the cost would have been included. If it was a small amount I would work it out between myself and the subcontractor and not involve the client. If not then I would negotiate with the sub and client to come to a compromise. In those cases nobody wins with the subcontractor loosing most if not all of their profit, my profit is reduced due to the subs fault and the client is less than happy.

As for deadlines that's a tough one. Sometimes you're a hero sometimes a zero. We loose sight of the fact that homes are built by hand by people of all different backgrounds, skills, and ethics. Construction has a lot of moving parts with people, suppliers, manufacturers and good old mother nature which can be difficult for even the best of construction professionals to keep a handle on. I refer to it as adult day care.

I'm not trying to take the side of the contractor since I know nothing about them, only trying to point out it is a complex process and some people do it better than others. I now do construction consulting for construction defect litigation and I have seen the worst of the worst. In the past I have taken over several problem projects that were behind schedule and over budget and most of the time it was due to poor communication and/or business skills of the contractor. Unfortunately it is too easy to become a contractor. Other times the client was just batsh*t crazy. Nothing like walking into a situation where everyone is p*ssed off.

Unfortunately right now the contractor has the advantage knowing you need this to be done as soon as possible. Hopefully you have a retention at the end of the job you can use as leverage to negotiate the final payment since it will be a portion of the contractors profit and the ball will be in your court. When things start going south I keep a log of all the conversations, promises, dates etc. that they occurred That can help at the end when memories get cloudy.

Hopefully your new home will be done soon and this will all be a distant memory.

 

[Cadillac STS]

Would just be nice to have a clause that the contractor would pay $100 per day not completed on agreed upon day. That would pay for a hotel room or extended storage unit costs, etc..

 

[TomS]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Tom. Having been in construction for 32 years and a general contractor for the last 26 years I have been on both sides of the table.

I have had subcontractors do the same thing and it is always a difficult situation. On one hand you have negotiated a fixed price with the client and on the other had the mistake not occurred the cost would have been included. If it was a small amount I would work it out between myself and the subcontractor and not involve the client. If not then I would negotiate with the sub and client to come to a compromise. In those cases nobody wins with the subcontractor loosing most if not all of their profit, my profit is reduced due to the subs fault and the client is less than happy.

As for deadlines that's a tough one. Sometimes you're a hero sometimes a zero. We loose sight of the fact that homes are built by hand by people of all different backgrounds, skills, and ethics. Construction has a lot of moving parts with people, suppliers, manufacturers and good old mother nature which can be difficult for even the best of construction professionals to keep a handle on. I refer to it as adult day care.

I'm not trying to take the side of the contractor since I know nothing about them, only trying to point out it is a complex process and some people do it better than others. I now do construction consulting for construction defect litigation and I have seen the worst of the worst. In the past I have taken over several problem projects that were behind schedule and over budget and most of the time it was due to poor communication and/or business skills of the contractor. Unfortunately it is too easy to become a contractor. Other times the client was just batsh*t crazy. Nothing like walking into a situation where everyone is p*ssed off.

Unfortunately right now the contractor has the advantage knowing you need this to be done as soon as possible. Hopefully you have a retention at the end of the job you can use as leverage to negotiate the final payment since it will be a portion of the contractors profit and the ball will be in your court. When things start going south I keep a log of all the conversations, promises, dates etc. that they occurred That can help at the end when memories get cloudy.

Hopefully your new home will be done soon and this will all be a distant memory.

Thanks for your comments. The field superintendent is a poor communicator and when he does communicate he does it without thinking it through. In other words he opens mouth, inserts foot, then tries to explain his way out of a bad situation. He's passionate about construction (he does build a quality house) but his people skills are weak.

All this being said our meeting went well. We had the field superintendent, the sales/real estate agent, and two other principles there (all four are partners in the development). After dragging out a tentative completion date from the superintendent and defining the final scope the other partners drug us away and said it will get worked out. We'll see.

 

[TomS]

Would just be nice to have a clause that the contractor would pay $100 per day not completed on agreed upon day. That would pay for a hotel room or extended storage unit costs, etc..

That would be good but it's not something they would consider. I've asked.

 

[jbolt]

Thanks for your comments. The field superintendent is a poor communicator and when he does communicate he does it without thinking it through. In other words he opens mouth, inserts foot, then tries to explain his way out of a bad situation. He's passionate about construction (he does build a quality house) but his people skills are weak.

All this being said our meeting went well. We had the field superintendent, the sales/real estate agent, and two other principles there (all four are partners in the development). After dragging out a tentative completion date from the superintendent and defining the final scope the other partners drug us away and said it will get worked out. We'll see.

Glad to hear the meeting went well or at least as well as it could. It sounds like you are working with a small development company so they may have a little more wiggle room on the bottom line than a sole proprietor contractor.

Construction, especially residential, is a funny game where people with good construction skills get promoted to management positions with no management training and are left in the wind to figure it out on their own or hang themselves.

 

[jbolt]

That would be good but it's not something they would consider. I've asked.

The reality is, in residential construction, a performance clause usually has little value. They are hard to enforce and if present in a contract the builder will add time to the back end of the original schedule as a buffer. This just extends the duration of the project, i.e. Parkinson's Law. "Work expands to fill the time available for its completion." A savvy builder will insist it goes both ways with cash incentives for finishing early and a clear definition of what constitutes a delay.

 

[TomS]

Glad to hear the meeting went well or at least as well as it could. It sounds like you are working with a small development company so they may have a little more wiggle room on the bottom line than a sole proprietor contractor.

Construction, especially residential, is a funny game where people with good construction skills get promoted to management positions with no management training and are left in the wind to figure it out on their own or hang themselves.

Yes, the meeting went well but the outcome not so good. They are insisting we pay $2,000 for their oversight. Seems they have an open check book by claiming that they didn't charge us enough for the agreed upon work scope. So I buy a car. I go down to the dealer to pick it up and there are no wheels and tires on it. I ask what gives with no tires and wheels. The response is, "Oh, you wanted wheels and tires? Those are extra". That's where I'm at with these so-called building contractors.

 

[TomS]

The reality is, in residential construction, a performance clause usually has little value. They are hard to enforce and if present in a contract the builder will add time to the back end of the original schedule as a buffer. This just extends the duration of the project, i.e. Parkinson's Law. "Work expands to fill the time available for its completion." A savvy builder will insist it goes both ways with cash incentives for finishing early and a clear definition of what constitutes a delay.

And to add to what Jay said all good contracts will have a force majeure (spelling?) clause which means weather delays, material deliveries, strikes, military actions, acts of god, and many other exclusions means missing a completion date is difficult to enforce.