G0509g 16x40 Drool Thread

Reddinr said:
Sure. No problem. The distance to the top of the cross slide that the compound sits on is 5.06". The slide for the compound is 1.78" higher than the top of the cross slide and the top surface of the compound is 3.36" higher than the top of the cross slide. So, that's 3.28" from center to the slide for the compound and 1.70" from center to the top surface of the compound. The top of the compound is 3.8" wide.

I don't have vast experience with a lathe. My experience is high school shop and my uncle let me use his from time to time, both decades ago. So, take my comments with that in mind. It was a tough decision about the lathe. I came close to getting a 4003g to save money and have a lighter weight lathe for ease of shipping etc. The 0509g just has more meat on it, wider ways etc. I thought it would be much stiffer and allow for more capability as my skills hopefully grow to catch up with the capability of the lathe. I have few complaints so far. Everything worked. All the parts were there. All of the gears worked. Some of the gear levers are touchy and you have to get them just right but they work. The manual is a little sketchy but not unusually so for any machine these days. Changing gears to go from worm to regular threading took a little time to figure out as the manual has just a couple of sentences and a bad photo. Still, it just took a few minutes and a "duh" moment to get it done.

I bought a motor-type phase converter that was too small for the job. I got a 7.5HP for the 5HP motor of the lathe. Had I been more careful, I would have read up and known better. These motors seem to take lots of start-up current. It did work on low gear/low speed settings but the spin-up time was slow. On high settings I would pop the overload or a breaker on the lathe. The inverter I have now is much better. The brake is very convenient. The machine is massive and takes a while to come to a stop without the brake.
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Thanks a bunch Reddinr. So the spindle centerline is 1.70 inches from the top of the compound where the QCTP would sit. The "optimal" centerline for the Dorian CXA is 1.65 inches so the CXA is near perfect size for the G0509G. The working range for the CXA is 1.25 to 2.25 inches allowing plenty of room up and down for different tool heights. The Dorian CA is clearly too large with an optimal centerline height of 1.937 and range of 1.562 to 2.562.

I would be interested in any info you could share on your choice of inverter.
 
coolidge said:
Thanks a bunch Reddinr. So the spindle centerline is 1.70 inches from the top of the compound where the QCTP would sit. The "optimal" centerline for the Dorian CXA is 1.65 inches so the CXA is near perfect size for the G0509G. The working range for the CXA is 1.25 to 2.25 inches allowing plenty of room up and down for different tool heights. The Dorian CA is clearly too large with an optimal centerline height of 1.937 and range of 1.562 to 2.562.

I would be interested in any info you could share on your choice of inverter.
Click to expand...

The inverter I'm using is a monster. I think it is 100+HP rated, surplus unit I had lying around. I rewired it as a voltage regulator with a big filter on the output. In general though, an inverter needs to be over-sized in order to work well as a single phase to three phase converter. It has to do with the input circuits of the inverter. The input breaker/feeder will need to be higher current rated too. The inverter should be one that is specified or known to work as a single to three phase inverter. Some of them won't do that. A couple of examples: A Yaskawa A1000 series drive, for a 5HP motor, with no added input inductors: Model 2A0056. If you add some input inductors, a 2A0040 will do it. The input inductors help the drive by reducing peak currents and for other technical reasons. Those are 20HP and 15HP drives respectively, and a little pricey. I picked Yaskawa as an example because they have good specs. that call out what its single phase ratings are. Those are likely pretty conservative ratings for a lathe since the lathe is usually a fairly low duty cycle load. Because the motors in these lathes are not "inverter rated" you will need to at least add output inductors to reduce the voltage stresses on the motor and probably output filters. Otherwise, the motor may not last long because the inverters create voltages with very fast/high peaks. If you use the inverter in a conventional way, you will also need to rewire the lathe because the ON/OFF controls need to control the inverter and not directly turn on/off the inverter's load which can be bad for the inverter. With certain inverters, there is a mode where the inverter can act as a three phase AC power supply but you need external circuitry to make it work. That is what I am doing with my inverter in order to avoid a lathe re-wire for the moment and so I can use it to power some three phase electronics. I'm not trying to discourage you but you should go into it knowing the realities of the inverter. There are likely people with experience with some of the other, lower cost inverter brands and may have smaller drives the work well for their situation.
 
Reddinr dang, that doesn't sound very turnkey. I have some electrical/electronics knowledge but not enough to design something. I have been looking at the American Rotary AD 15 phase converter. It looks like I would be fine with one of those on a 40 amp single phase breaker up to a 5hp load.

Rotary phase converter noise right but I have a VFD on my mill generating 3 phase power (inverter rated Leeson motor) and the cooling fans go WHAAAAAA so how much louder could they be.

https://www.americanrotary.com/products/view/ad-digital-smart-series

Machine 3 phase power requirements and 83 inch high garage doors are starting to cramp my style, I'm about to get irritated and buy a new home with a shop, a 10' door, and 200 amps of 3 phase power :cussing:
 
Might be cheaper to lease a small shop in a local industrial park. My old boss built his shop to take care of his Ferrari 550 and ended up with pretty much everything in there. Extreme example, but I considered it back when I was thinking of doing some performance car side work. For engine management tuning, I needed space for the chassis dyno... :)
 
There are 5Hp single phase VFDs that work just fine without getting complicated.
Haunyang VFD 5Hp Single phase, on eBay or through vendors
AC Tech (Lenze) SFC series SF250Y 208/240 Volt 1 or 3 Phase input HP = 5 KW=4.0 Current Output 17.5 Must be the Y version, the SF250 is 3 phase input only
Leeson SM Plus IP20 VFD 200-240V 1&3PH INPUT Hp = 5 Manufacturer Part Number:174444.00
Price is $600-700 vs the Haunyang $225
Opinion of Haunyang varies, I have not seen any direct comparisons, but there has to be some compromises at that price level.
Some 3 phase VFD units can be run on 1 phase, you would need something like a 8.5-10Hp 3 phase input VFD unit. there was some discussion in these posts
http://www.dartcontrols.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/De-Rating-VFD-for-Single-Phase-Power.pdf
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...h-smvector-teco-hitachi-etc-beyond-3hp.21735/

VFD noise/fans. Many VFDs allow you to adjust the fan so it does not run all the time. My WJ200 is set to run off temperature, it rarely turns on. Also, if in an enclosure they are a lot quieter. The other significant noise problem can be motor wine, with some tweaking of the carrier frequency, it usually goes away at 12Khz and above. It is very uncommon to need any filters/chokes on the lines with these smaller VFD units. Most posts that discuss non-VFD 3 phase motors run by VFDs, they rarely if ever report having seen a motor failure, and we are talking very old motors. Also, motors run at 240V 3 phase will see much lower VFD voltage spikes, than those run at the higher voltages.
 
I have read (don't know how accurate it is) that a problem with using a VFD for the G0509G is the main motor operates at 2 different speeds/windings then there is the 2nd 3 phase motor for the coolant pump.
 
Just addressing the issue of a single phase 5 Hp VFD. Not so familiar with 2 seed 3 phase AC motors, and the optimum use with a VFD but would probably only use the high speed (4Hp) and the VFD would do the rest. The 3 phase coolant pump (1/8Hp) could be run off any basic VFD ($50-80) if you wanted or even used flood coolant. Most people would go with a RPC. All I am outlining is there are a lot of options, with not a lot of limitations, you need to consider the additional costs in what lathe you choose. When you add everything up, there are a number of variable speed VFD lathes in this price category. My experience was I could of purchased the variable speed version of the lathe (if it was available in the US) for what I invested in adding it on after the matter of the fact.
 
coolidge said:
I have read (don't know how accurate it is) that a problem with using a VFD for the G0509G is the main motor operates at 2 different speeds/windings then there is the 2nd 3 phase motor for the coolant pump.
Click to expand...
The G0509G uses a barrel switch to control SLOW vs FAST winding power. If you wired that directly to your VFD 3 phase output, you are trusting yourself not to goon things up by shifting the speed when the lathe motor is turning.

I have never tried to shift speeds in a gear head lathe while the motor was running, so that doesn't seem too unsafe.

If you want to make things automated to protect your self, you would have to replace the barrel switch with a DPDT switch, and add an interlocked pair of three phase contactors. That would be tricky, but it could be done. SLOW/FAST switch triggers VFD to stop, zero speed output contact on VFD in sequence with second pole of SLOW/FAST switch triggers the contactors that reroute slow vs. fast winding power. That isn't quite enough to make up the complete circuit; you also need a couple of relays to keep power supplied to the contactors when the VFD is commanded to off for some other reason than switching speed.

Probably not worth the additional effort and expense.
 
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