Problem with pm932m quickly resolved by Matt

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wrmiller said:
Expecting a Chinese made machine to "work well" is too much to expect IMO. Every Chinese machine I have seen/worked on/owned was basically a pre-assembled kit that needed to be torn apart, reworked, and have parts replaced to get it to serviceable condition. The last Chinese machine I owned, a 9x40 mill, took me over a year of work to get it right.

While some folks will be satisfied with a Chinese machine right out of the box, most of the more serious hobby types will be in for some level of disappointment.
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I don't disagree and I think many will also agree with you. BUT how is the buyer supposed to know what to expect? You are basing your opinion on your past experience.

I feel that research has always helped me with my purchases. I suggest anyone buying machinery always check the forums for good information.
 
This is why I get aggrivated when people are advised to steer clear of the old iron and buy new Chinese instead. At least when you get done working on the old iron you have something that is capable of taking a heavy cut without the cross slide flexing and messing up your work piece or tool. In a perfect world you could buy the cheap new machine and it would be ready to rock right out of the crate....the world aint perfect.
 
PT Doc said:
I don't disagree and I think many will also agree with you. BUT how is the buyer supposed to know what to expect? You are basing your opinion on your past experience.

I feel that research has always helped me with my purchases. I suggest anyone buying machinery always check the forums for good information.
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It's not just my opinion. I've talked to, and helped many people who bought Chinese machines. And research helps, but it's no guarantee. Some folks get a good machine, another person buys the same model machine from the same supplier and have issues. It really helps if a importer stands behind the machines they sell, because your chance of getting a machine that needs some TLC is very real.

Neither of my Taiwan machines had any issues after I received them, and both are very accurate. I've had enough pre-assembled kits... :)
 
Talk about good service! I'm impressed. If I EVER bought an import machine, I'd buy it from him.
Mark
 
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Folks...

Several years ago, I did after-sale support work for Matt and even helped sell quite a few machines. I did this for a couple years and in that time, several hundred Chinese machines of varying kinds were sold. Just about every single call for help got routed to me. I recall 2 machines having a confirmed manufacturing defect. We also had a case where 10 lathes were shipped with metric leadscrews instead of US. This was not a defective part per-se. It was due to an ordering error because one metric machine was ordered but the factory sent 1 lot (25) because that is the minimum quantity of any given model. There was also a case where 3-4 mills were found to have improperly tightened wire connections in the connector block. In all cases, Matt resolved the issue to the customer's satisfaction.

So, out of about 500 machines (and it was probably more than that) 16 had a problem. That's 96.8% that didn't have a problem. Yes, there's the normal issues that arise such as motor capacitors, weak fuses and an occasional screw, nut or bolt that comes lose with a short time. This happens to just about everything you buy today. My first new American automobiles purchased between the 80's and 90's had 10 times worse problems.

Are Chinese lathes & mills the same quality as Taiwanese? No. Fit, finish and attention to detail on the Taiwanese machines is much better.

Does Matt have to work harder to sell the Chinese machines? Yes! He checks the shipments when they arrive and he sorts-out any significant issues before sending it. He used to check every single machine. I don't know if he still does that or not -but nonetheless, it's a lot of work. Do Chinese machines cut any better? I don't think so. If anyone here has watched my projects, I routinely cut pieces with pretty darn close tolerances. The lathe (PM1236) and Mill (PM45) are both Chinese and completely stock.

How come I'm not doing support work for Matt anymore? A) I'm an engineering contractor/consultant and had to sign an exclusivity agreement on my last long-term contract. B) I could not handle working with a small percentage of buyers who were calling my house at all hours in the morning, afternoon, evening and middle of night (sometimes drunk). The majority of folks here are really quite fine and that's why I hang around here. A great many of the "newby" folks outside of this web site are really confused. People see videos on YouTube of a $400,000 machine doing all kinds of fancy work -and somehow, they think a 500lb lathe is going to hog metal like a Shipley with the precision of a Hardinge.

FWIW, I was raised in a machine shop. Father was a T&D maker. Uncle a metallurgist. My first lathe was Leblond 1554 gear head and I was in full control of it at/around the age of 9 years old. Later on, I ran a 1554 Regal (hydroshift). I've also owned SB, and a couple Atlas machines over the years at times in life where I did not have room for a full shop. If someone wants to know more about the differences between Old Iron, New Iron and Asian Iron and wants to know about what it's really like to service the hobby-end of the retail business. -Just ask. You will get an honest answer.

Ray
 
The company I work for, let China buy in for 50 million. Now most of our parts are from there. I said at the time this is a bad ideal. Now I'm living the bad ideal, every day, we have loads of parts to rework. While I was out for surgery, they brought on another guy, mostly a fabricator, with a little machining skill. That's another story. I can't take the junk, anymore. It seems what we get is a low end product, quality is terrible.
I bought a 14 x 40 BV from Matt a few years ago, and it's been great.
And the 80's cars--- How about the K car, or the Granada. Which one did Chevy try to turn into a diesel? That didn't work.
Back to China, as soon as this house is finished, it's going on the market. As soon as it's sold, I'm quitting the China rework business. I'd rather work for myself. I'm to tired to deal with all the BS anymore.
 
My first lathe for home was a Weiss WBL290F which looks just like the PM1127. I was very disappointed with the quality of the machine. Sold it and purchased a PM 1236-T. Much better quality then the Chinese lathe. That being said I had a few issues with the PM 1236-T that required some replacement parts. It took a while to get them but PM was always easy to deal with and they know their machines. Which is a plus when dealing with people who sell machine tools but don't really have and machining background.
 
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