Switch wiring - Jet 8 X 18 mill

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Frank, you say that the capacitor is not in the circuit after the motor starts. Since my capacitors are tin cans, I thought they would be start and run capacitors. Also, I thought that we determined in the continuity tests that the capacitor was possibly not in the circuit at all or at least not in forward. When I started it up in forward and reverse and forward took longer to spool up, I thought that was an indication that forward did not have the capacitor in the circuit and reverse did.

Can you tell me again how to test the motor in high speed range without using the switch? Don't know if I can find it in the past posts. I will also test the lathe in high speed reverse to see if it seems to function normally (not the way forward functions). Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Hi Frank,

In my last post, I thought I was responding to your most recent post but now I can't find your post that I responded to. Oh well, just take it as some thoughts on the problem and by the way, I do really appreciate your help on this.

Thanks, Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Hi Jim If your motor had both run and start capacitor there would be 2. However in another topic 7HC has a motor with one Cap and no centrifugal switch. Yes there are motors with only a Run Cap. but they were used with low torque start functions like fan motors but he had one connected in a saw (I think) To lower cost these imports may be using this type of motor.
Now to answer your question. The switches in your lathe do the following, I can't be positive that it's correct for your motor. If you recall I said there are 2 types of 2 speed motors, One has two different motor windings in the motor and run as two different motors is the better of the two and costs more money! The other is a single 4 pole motor that uses the switching to change the pole arrangement to 2 poles. Both the drawing and the switching indicate you have the 2 winding motor but some of the tests I was doing I was trying to see if I could confirm what you have! Two things bothered me, One the 2 winding 2 speed motor is more expensive and Two was the requirement to have to push both buttons at the same time to use High speed! It seem they wanted a disconnect in high speed something that would be required in a pole switching application. The fact that your motor does get up to speed with out the Cap connection in Low Speed Forward should indicate it has a start Cap switch. If you hear a click when the motor is shut down and coasting to a stop then it has a centrifugal switch.
Back to your answer, In Low Speed Reverse the switch connects "S" to "X1" and nmc "C" ---- "P" to "Z" and "X"
Low Speed Forward "S" to "X1" and "X2"-----"P" to "Z" and nms"C"
Connecting "S" and "P" mean nothing use any one of the 2 wire cord you intend to power the motor for "S" and the other for "P" to reverse direction you simply reverse X2 and nms"C". If you switch both the motor will not reverse direction nor does it mater which two are switched. Understand? Put wire nuts or tape on "V1" and "V2"
Connect power and your motor will run one way or the other depending how it's wired.
High speed is the same except "X1" will be insulated and V1 connected "X2" Insulated and "V2" connected. Be ready to disconnect the wires on High speed if your motor don't run right because your having problem with High Speed.
If you have any questions please ask!!

Frank

Hi Frank,

I do have some questions:

What lead is P?
Does Z need to be disconnected from the switch in order to perform the tests?
How well do these connections need to be since this is motor current?
Is it sufficient to pinch them together with aligator clips?


In my quests for capacitors, I was continually told that the bakelite type capacitors are start only and the tin can type are start and run capacitors. I understood that in the start mode the tin can type was in the start circuit and then switched out by the motor but while running, it would be switched back end periodically.

Also, when it comes to making guesses as to what the manufacturer would have done, Taiwan in the 80s on an 8X18 lathe would be looking for the most bang for the buck. These guys knew their onions as they were the guys inventing calculators at the time but in my experience, the big push was to cut cost, beat competition, and make money.

Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Hi Frank,

I don't understand what you mean by:
"I would also use a cord of some kind that is not connected to "S" or "R" just in case there is some switch problems."

When you say:
"Connection needs to be as good as the amperage of the motor requires, do you have wire nuts?"
All of these wires have female spade terminals in order to connect to the male spade terminals on the switch so I will make jumper wires with male spade terminals on each end. It is easy to keep all wires and connections from touching metal or each other.

When you say:
"It might be a good idea to put one of thos light bulbs in series with it!"
First, which circuit is to have the light bult in series and
secondly, is series to have the light bulb directly in that particular circuit where if the light bulb were not there there would be no complete circuit?

When you talk about the hearing the centrifugal switch kicking in, I know the sound well. I don't believe I have heard it on this lathe (although I wasn't listening for it) but with all of the gear noise from the headstock, I just may not be able to hear the motor switch if it is not that distinct as my ears are long past subtle sounds. I may need to get my wife to listen but that involves interpretation.

Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Sorry Frank, I skipped that question. No, there is not a resistor between the terminals of the capacitor. Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

One more question Frank. A couple of posts back, you said:
"Back to your answer, In Low Speed Reverse the switch connects "S" to "X1" and nmc "C" ---- "P" to "Z" and "X"
Low Speed Forward "S" to "X1" and "X2"-----"P" to "Z" and nms"C"

I know the P is R but which X is the one without a number after it ("P" to "Z" and "X")? Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Frank,

After hooking a circuit up (and I have Z loose from the switch), I checked and there is no closed circuit to the motor case as you mentioned. When I gave power to the low speed reverse circiut, the motor hums, the light bulb in series lights up, but there is no movement of the motor shaft. I had the lathe in neutral but there is still some force required to start. It is a lot to remove the belt as it is a timing belt. I didn't go any further since it did not go in low speed reverse.

Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

OK Frank, in both low speed reverse and in high speed forward, the motor starts right up. There is no click when it is shut off. I have marked the motor pulley to make movement more visable. I can't be positive but it looks like the motor is going the same speed in low and high. Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Hi Jim

The motor runs in all ranges but the speed stays the same. I'm sure you will hear the difference between 1800 RPM and 3600 RPM.
I'm thinking you have a 2 speed one winding motor, it makes sense. Fits the low cost theory! But if it were 2 speed one winding and we used 2 of the available poles it should be running at High speed all the time not low speed. Seems every alley we go down it adds to the puzzle not help solve the problem.
I have a few motor books at my shop, I'll have to check on wiring methods. Your switch don't tell us much since the schematic seems to follow the wiring diagram but we have no idea what's happening inside the switch.
Is there any information on the motor? Did you try High Speed Reverse or Low Speed Forward

Frank

Hi Frank,

I will check High Speed Reverse or Low Speed Forward first thing tomorrow.

When you say, "we have no idea what's happening inside the switch," don't we have some idea that terminals above and below each other are probably contacted as the switch button in that area moves up and down. Guess that's not much but something.

You asked: "Is there any information on the motor?" Every time speeds are given by the manufacturer, there is a reference to one speed if 50 cycles and another speed if 60 cycles. It is given this for each and every gear setting. I don't know if that means anything. Also, I'll give you all the motor plate has on it tomorrow.

Jim

 

[yellow_cad]

Re: Capacitor questions

Hi Frank,

Here is the info on the motor plate (I am stating it here as close to the way they state it as I can):

Type: TTC
HP: 1/3/4
Pole: 2/4
Rotor: C
Rating: Cont.
INS.CL: E
Volt: 115
Cycle: 60
Amp: 5.6/6A
Bearing: 6004 6004
RPM: 3425/1710
MFG #: 82618
Date: 1980

You say that I will need to know what speed the motor is going. The only thing I have for determining RPM is an old Starret type mechanical device. Add to that the fact that I am looking at the driven pulley which is probably a little smaller than the driver pulley on the motor. I have checked the lathe spindle speeds in low range and they are exactly what they should be for low range 60 cycles. If you mean, that I need to be sure the motor is going 1710 versus 3425 then I am certain that in high speed forward, the motor was going 1710 and not 3425. Please let me know how close you want me to be able to determine the speed.

Jim