NSFW My Oliver S-1 Die Filer finally made it! BUT, UPS had their way with it.

Warning: thread may contain photos that are not for the squeamish.
SO, the UPS guy showed up with a label today to take the machine away. He explained that they need to 'inspect' it to pay the insurance, and if they decide to pay for it, they'll keep the machine. They MIGHT offer a 'buy back' for a reduced payment, but he wasn't sure.

I just opted to keep the machine and eat the damage. It isn't worth the risk that they'd either damage it more, or decide to just keep/destroy it afterwards in exchange for what amounts to less than it is worth as it sits. I'm hoping the welder in town can figure out how to fix it and not charge an arm and a leg :)
 
Uggh. When I sell on eBay I always plan ahead with my packaging. I get actual weights, disassemble, take photos and put a little extra on the shipping if I have to in order to provide some confidence that you vintage machine tool items are leaving in one piece and have a fighting chance.

What that seller did to you on this is shameful. Sorry. Looks like we with a lot of work and repair it may be salvageable.

Post pics of the process of you do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ErichKeane said:
SO, the UPS guy showed up with a label today to take the machine away. He explained that they need to 'inspect' it to pay the insurance, and if they decide to pay for it, they'll keep the machine. They MIGHT offer a 'buy back' for a reduced payment, but he wasn't sure.

I just opted to keep the machine and eat the damage. It isn't worth the risk that they'd either damage it more, or decide to just keep/destroy it afterwards in exchange for what amounts to less than it is worth as it sits. I'm hoping the welder in town can figure out how to fix it and not charge an arm and a leg :)
Click to expand...
Did you get a full refund, or are you eating the whole boat?

I don't think I would be willing to do that since there are plenty more die filers out there that aren't broken. Maybe if you got shipping refunded and a discount from the seller for not packing it right, but not paying everything and letting the seller and UPS off the hook.

I bought my Keller for $40 so that's my frame of reference. It's a useful machine when I need it but I could easily live without it. If it were me I'd be on the horn with the local UPS depot and let them know how disappointed you are with their service. If they need to inspect it then they can send someone to your shop at your convenience.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they wouldn't need to "inspect" it at all if they didn't think someone on their end scr3w3d up.

Don't give up on this, file a claim with PayPal now and let them fight over it for a while. PayPal charged your credit card which also has protection for you, this is far from over unless you just don't want to deal anymore and are willing to walk away.

JMHO,

John
 
matthewsx said:
Did you get a full refund, or are you eating the whole boat?

I don't think I would be willing to do that since there are plenty more die filers out there that aren't broken. Maybe if you got shipping refunded and a discount from the seller for not packing it right, but not paying everything and letting the seller and UPS off the hook.

I bought my Keller for $40 so that's my frame of reference. It's a useful machine when I need it but I could easily live without it. If it were me I'd be on the horn with the local UPS depot and let them know how disappointed you are with their service. If they need to inspect it then they can send someone to your shop at your convenience.

Correct me if I'm wrong but they wouldn't need to "inspect" it at all if they didn't think someone on their end scr3w3d up.

Don't give up on this, file a claim with PayPal now and let them fight over it for a while. PayPal charged your credit card which also has protection for you, this is far from over unless you just don't want to deal anymore and are willing to walk away.

JMHO,

John
Click to expand...
I'm eating it all at the moment. I ended up about $500 shipped for the whole thing, which is about asking price around it seems. And I don't think these machines made it to the Portland area much anyway, not one has shown up on the usual places since I created my searches about 15 months ago...

So I figure even after repair, I'm ahead of the game *shrug*. Some areas of the country didn't really get all the cheap machines like these it seems, and Portland seems to be one that missed out on a lot of them.
 
Also; apparently UPS stores are franchised, so they aren't covered under UPS insurance. So all that would likely happen is UPS would keep the machine and perhaps further damage it for a few weeks, then blame the packaging.

At which point, I'd have to figure out how to recover money from a UPS store in Ohio. I could perhaps do after the seller, but it doesn't seem fair to stick some widow selling her husband's stuff at 1/2 value with the cost, particularly after she was so understanding/helpful being willing to ship in the first place.

Basically: she could possibly go after the store, but chances are she or I would be stuck holding the bag here... And I think I'd rather it be me in that situation, so *shrug*, end of day I'll end up with a machine I'm happy with that has a scar.
 
ErichKeane said:
I'm eating it all at the moment. I ended up about $500 shipped for the whole thing, which is about asking price around it seems. And I don't think these machines made it to the Portland area much anyway, not one has shown up on the usual places since I created my searches about 15 months ago...

So I figure even after repair, I'm ahead of the game *shrug*. Some areas of the country didn't really get all the cheap machines like these it seems, and Portland seems to be one that missed out on a lot of them.
Click to expand...
I understand your desire to have the machine, especially after looking so long to find one, I just lucked into mine and I wouldn't have even know what it was without this forum.

Thanks for letting us know the circumstances of the sale and shipping, I agree that if the seller delivered the machine in good condition they shouldn't be the one to eat the cost for damage. But, just because the UPS store is franchised doesn't let UPS off the hook for damage. Likewise, PayPal and your credit card company should also care that you suffered a loss. At the very least someone should be paying for the repair other than you, and charging someone hundreds of dollars for shipping that resulted in a broken machine just isn't fair.

Like I said earlier, I've seen this from both sides so I have strong opinions about it. Have you spoken with the owner/manager of the UPS store that packaged it? It might be worth a quick email (with pictures), and a follow up call to let them know that you aren't willing to risk further damage by turning the machine over to UPS corporate for "inspection". If they're decent business people/humans (and they might just be) they should be concerned about their customers and their reputation.

Whatever you choose please let us know how it works out.

John
 
I want to make a few points here about @ErichKeane purchase...

1.) First, Erich did not buy it on eBay. He purchased it on Facebook Marketplace. They are not one and the same.
2.) Facebook Marketplace does not have purchase protection unless you buy it from a Facebook Marketplace Store, which by the sounds of it was not.
3.) Paypal DOES have protections for buyers UNLESS you sent the money as a "friends and family" transaction, then it is not covered. Many sellers ask to receive money this way so they don't have to pay the 3.5% PayPal fee, but the buyer has no protection.

The type of packaging that @ttabbal mentioned in this thread is called FIP (Foam In Place). There are a few variations to how that is accomplished, but it is generally rather effective. I am the "apparent" packaging guru at work, so I am quite familiar with that system. It can be a great or a horrible system, depending on what you are packaging.

EDIT: If it were me Erich, I would not back down. You sound like an awesome guy with a good heart, but this was not your fault. It was the person that packaged it for shipping to you, and the shipping company.
 
7milesup said:
I want to make a few points here about @ErichKeane purchase...

1.) First, Erich did not buy it on eBay. He purchased it on Facebook Marketplace. They are not one and the same.
2.) Facebook Marketplace does not have purchase protection unless you buy it from a Facebook Marketplace Store, which by the sounds of it was not.
3.) Paypal DOES have protections for buyers UNLESS you sent the money as a "friends and family" transaction, it is not covered. Many sellers ask to receive money this way so they don't have to pay the 3.5% PayPal fee, but the buyer has no protection.

The type of packaging that @ttabbal mentioned in this thread is called FIP (Foam In Place). There are a few variations to how that is accomplished, but it is generally rather effective. I am the "apparent" packaging guru at work, so I am quite familiar with that system. It can be a great or a horrible system, depending on what you are packaging.
Click to expand...
Yep, the point I'm making is if the seller paid the UPS store to package it then they should have done the job right or refused to ship it. Once they accepted money to put it in a box they became responsible for it arriving intact (regardless of what their contract said). There's a general legal concept of implied merchantability which means if you sell something it needs to do what you represented it to do.

If the UPS store accepted the item for packaging, they implied that they would be able to do it sufficiently to prevent damage during transport. The fact that UPS corporate wants to take the item into their custody to "inspect" it smacks to me of a simple ploy to prevent the customer (in this case both the seller and buyer) from pursuing any other remedy. If they have it, and they make the determination of loss, then you're stuck with their decision and by giving the item up you have no evidence at all other than pictures.

In no case would I turn the item over to UPS. Any "inspection" they need to do should be at their expense, and your convenience. If they want to avoid further problems they can refund the cost of shipping (at the very least), and go after their franchisee to recover their loss.

Clearly what probably happened is someone at the store accepted the machine and didn't know/care how to package it for proper shipment. These stores advertise being able to pack your grandmas antique china so they should have training on what to accept, and how to package it properly. This shouldn't even be the responsibility of the franchise owner since they are paying UPS not only for their good name, but also for training on how to operate their business.

If the seller had packaged it I agree that Erich would probably be out of luck unless they did a refund out of their pocket. In this case I think he should hold UPS's feet to the fire. They'll probably give up with just a little bit of indignant outrage since this is such a small amount on their books.

JMHO,

John
 
It's awful how business passes the misery on to the customer by default. But you're not even the customer, the customer is the guy who paid the shipper, which is only you by proxy, the seller is the actual customer. Nobody loses but the little guy!

Enough of my pessimism, the butter side up on this one is that there are many viable ways to make a strong repair on cast iron. I have no doubt that your support arm is repairable. You might not even see the scar when you're done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top